Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

[Rival]

OT Law (10 comm)

There are way more than 10 commandments.

 

[osgart]

It is incorrect.

The kingdom began in AD33 (Acts 2:36-47). Those who obeyed (Ac.2:38) were placed into the church (kingdom) (Ac.2:47).

The kingdom and the church are one in the same (Mt.16:18,19).

Thanks

I suppose it was always faith, mercy, and grace the whole way through the Bible.

 

[oldbadger]

Please notice I posted the word of God (1Peter 4:11).

No........ Peter wrote 1Peter:-
The First Epistle General of Peter
{1:1} Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers
scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and
Bithynia,

I am not the author of this information I just read it in the bible (Eph.3:3,4).

No..... most researchers agree that Paul did not write the above letter.

Paul did not contradict the Lord Jesus Christ for he said the following.
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. (1Cor.14:37)

Do you think that Jesus supported slavery? .... as in:-
Paul's letter to Titus: Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them (Titus 2:9)

No. Jesus said what he said.
But, of course, if Jesus is God and if God wrote the whole bible, then there are a lot of laws that Christians seem to be ignoring, starting with at least 507 of the Old Testament Laws.

 

[oldbadger]

Your ignorance of fundamentalims has just been exposed.

You would need to show how my ignorance has been exposed, if you can.

If you grasp to any Old Testament Laws then the very first to take hold of would be the poor laws. The very first....!

 

[oldbadger]

Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/35/c8/fc35c83d49e0b71cca4e836577f6f33c.jpg

What does anyone make of the 7 dispensations?

Sadly the image is not quite clear enough to read easily, but thank you for mentioning these.

 

[Nova2216]

There are way more than 10 commandments.

You are correct.

There were 613 if my memory is working well.

(Mt.22:36-40) - 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thanks

 

[Rival]

You are correct.

There were 613 if my memory is working well.

(Mt.22:36-40) - 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thanks

There still are, for Jews.

 

[Nova2216]

I suppose it was always faith, mercy, and grace the whole way through the Bible.

Yes, Noah was saved by grace (Gen.6:8).

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

We learn how he was saved by grace in (Gen.6:22).

22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

People in the church age are saved in the same manner.


Notice what (Mt.28:18-20) says.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe "all things" whatsoever I have commanded you:

Notice what (Mt.7:21) says.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that "doeth" the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice what (Ac.2:40) says.

..."Save yourselves" from this untoward generation

Notice what (Heb.5:9) says.

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto "all them that obey him";

Notice what (2Thess.1:7-9) says.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that "know not" God, and that "obey not" the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord

What about those who claim obedience is not required for salvation? What do they do with the scriptures above?

Thanks

 

[osgart]

But the Christians were Jews -- for quite a long time they were considered -- and considered themselves -- just another Jewish sect.
Didn't Jesus make it clear that he wasn't changing the law even a jot or tittle? Didn't he live as a Jew, observe Jewish laws, customs, holidays, &c?

Why even include the OT in the Bible, if it no longer applies? The God it depicts and the values expressed seem very different, often at odds with, modern Christian teachings.

The law is for sinners. Jesus was supposed to have fulfilled the law by dying for our redemption. So if we reject Jesus we are debtors to do the whole law as sinners. If we accept Jesus we are redeemed and fall under the jurisdiction of mercy, and grace. Sinners always fail at doing the law of the Ten Commandments. So to live by law you must be perfect in keeping it or face doom. The Jews and people who are saved in the OT lived by faith that a Messiah would come to redeem them. So whoever has faith in God believes God's promise. That's the Christianity I was taught.

Some say the law is just The Ten Commandments. Others might say the law is more then that. But the only thing that saves is believing in God from OT to NT. There was a time before the law was given. When the law was given sin was exposed. So be perfect, or accept grace is how it stands in the Christianity I was taught.

 

[osgart]

Yes, Noah was saved by grace (Gen.6:8).

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

We learn how he was saved by grace in (Gen.6:22).

22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

People in the church age are saved in the same manner.


Notice what (Mt.28:18-20) says.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe "all things" whatsoever I have commanded you:

Notice what (Mt.7:21) says.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that "doeth" the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice what (Ac.2:40) says.

..."Save yourselves" from this untoward generation

Notice what (Heb.5:9) says.

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto "all them that obey him";

Notice what (2Thess.1:7-9) says.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that "know not" God, and that "obey not" the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord

What about those who claim obedience is not required for salvation? What do they do with the scriptures above?

Thanks

Faith produces obedience and good works. That's the saving faith. So one is justified by faith in Jesus. Once saved always saved.

What about the backsliders?

 

[Nova2216]

Faith produces obedience and good works. That's the saving faith. So one is justified by faith in Jesus. Once saved always saved.

What about the backsliders?

Are you aware the word "faith" ("pistis" in Greek) can be translated "obey"?

Those saved can so sin as to be lost according to the scriptures. (Luke 15 whole Chapter).

(2Peter 2:20-22) -

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Simon was saved in (Ac.8:12-22). If Simon was not saved then neither was the Samaritans (Ac.8:5,12). Simon then sinned and an inspired man (Peter) told him he was not right with God and in the bond of iniquity. The remedy was to repent and pray for forgiveness of his sins. (1Jn 1:6-9) (Ac.8:22).

That sounds like (1Jn 1:6-9) -

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

(Heb.10:26-31) -

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

(Luke16:19-31) - Here a child of god (a Jew) ended up in torment.

When the subject of once saved always saved comes up I point to (1Jn 1:6-9) . It shows God gave man a remedy for sin after one becomes a Christian.

Thanks

 

[osgart]

Are you aware the word "faith" ("pistis" in Greek) can be translated "obey"?

Those saved can so sin as to be lost according to the scriptures. (Luke 15 whole Chapter).

(2Peter 2:20-22) -

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Simon was saved in (Ac.8:12-22). If Simon was not saved then neither was the Samaritans (Ac.8:5,12). Simon then sinned and an inspired man (Peter) told him he was not right with God and in the bond of iniquity. The remedy was to repent and pray for forgiveness of his sins. (1Jn 1:6-9) (Ac.8:22).

That sounds like (1Jn 1:6-9) -

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

(Heb.10:26-31) -

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

(Luke16:19-31) - Here a child of god (a Jew) ended up in torment.

When the subject of once saved always saved comes up I point to (1Jn 1:6-9) . It shows God gave man a remedy for sin after one becomes a Christian.

Thanks

Knowing is far different than believing.
I know the Christian perspective, but I never believed. Why? I have at least 12 objections.

However I never knew it to be truth.

Knowing isn't faith. My honesty is in those 12 objections.

 

[osgart]

5 branches and 60 denominations of Christianity in the world.

Which one is The Genuine article.

 

[Nova2216]

The law is for sinners. Jesus was supposed to have fulfilled the law by dying for our redemption.

Jesus died to fulfill the OT Law. (Heb.8:6-13) (Heb.9:15-17) (Heb.10:9,10) (Jer.31:31-34).

The OT Law was "abolished". (Eph.2:15)


His Death and Ress. began the NT Law.

(Jer.31:31-34) (Jas.1:25) (Rom.3:27).

15 Having "abolished" in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.(Eph.2:13-17)

We learn from the OT principles but no one today is under the OT Law. (Rom.15:4).

The researchers who claim Paul did not write (1Cor.14:37) are entitled to their opinion. But opinions are many times incorrect.

Thanks

 

[Nova2216]

5 branches and 60 denominations of Christianity in the world.

Which one is The Genuine article.

The one Jesus built in (Mt.16:18,19).

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

Notice "church" and "kingdom" is used interchangeably in the text above.

Peter was to receive the "keys" to the kingdom (church). Keys are used to open unlock something. It's by words (a message) men are saved (Ac.11:14) (Ac.2:40) (Jn 6:44,45).

The church which OT prophecies said would begin in (Ac.2:36-47). Verses such as (Joel 2:28) (Isa. 2:1-5) (Luke 24:45-49) (Ac.1:5,8) (Ac.2:36-47).

The saved are located in the church of Christ (Rom.16:16)

Church of Christ simply means the church which belongs to Christ (Eph.1:22,23) (Col.1:18,24).

I am not speaking of a denomination. I am referring to that which began in the 1st century and was built by Christ Himself and not a man. (Mt.16:18,19). We have no creed book other than the Bible (1Peter 4:11) (1Cor.4:6).


11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;

6. ...not to think of men above that which is written


Denominations have physical headquarters on earth and creed-books other than the bible.

The COC does not.


Thanks for asking.

 

[osgart]

The one Jesus built in (Mt.16:18,19).

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

Notice "church" and "kingdom" is used interchangeably in the text above.

Peter was to receive the "keys" to the kingdom (church). Keys are used to open unlock something. It's by words (a message) men are saved (Ac.11:14) (Ac.2:40) (Jn 6:44,45).

The church which OT prophecies said would begin in (Ac.2:36-47). Verses such as (Joel 2:28) (Isa. 2:1-5) (Luke 24:45-49) (Ac.1:5,8) (Ac.2:36-47).

The saved are located in the church of Christ (Rom.16:16)

Church of Christ simply means the church which belongs to Christ (Eph.1:22,23) (Col.1:18,24).

I am not speaking of a denomination. I am referring to that which began in the 1st century and was built by Christ Himself and not a man. (Mt.16:18,19). We have no creed book other than the Bible (1Peter 4:11) (1Cor.4:6).


11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;

6. ...not to think of men above that which is written


Denominations have physical headquarters on earth and creed-books other than the bible.

The COC does not.


Thanks for asking.

My father was an independent Baptist. They only used the Kjv 1611; exclusively.

 

[Nova2216]

Knowing is far different than believing.
I know the Christian perspective, but I never believed. Why? I have at least 12 objections.

However I never knew it to be truth.

Knowing isn't faith. My honesty is in those 12 objections.

At least when a person is honest you know where he/she stands.

I appreciate such a stand.

It sounds like you at once was looking for evidence of truth.

Can I help?

 

[osgart]

At least when a person is honest you know where he/she stands.

I appreciate such a stand.

It sounds like you at once was looking for evidence of truth.

Can I help?

Claims of a literal history of supernatural events.

The condoning of slavery.

The commands to kill and on large scales.

OT morality in general. Lengthy issues.
Stoning, killing babies, reserving virgins of conquered peoples, slaughtering animals for atonement, etc.

The evidence of the life of Jesus. death, burial, resurrection.

The growth of the population of humans from very few people.

The scientific case for evolution.

The fate of those who never hear the gospel.

All the good people I love who are not Christian, and Those that follow Christianity who don't get the Bible exactly right but mean well.

Dogmatic and legalistic faith, and the interpretation arguments, and errors.

Nature produces children from incest, adultery. The Savage ecosystems, and catastrophic sufferings of nature.

The reason why innocence must pay for the guilty to redeem sinners.

12 objections! I don't see answers for these dilemmas.

 

[oldbadger]

You are correct.

There were 613 if my memory is working well.

(Mt.22:36-40) - 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thanks

True...
But Jesus got rid of 106 of them straight off with:-
'I will have mercy, and not sacrifice.'

So did the Baptist, by offering cleansing and redemption in the Jordan.......... for free!
That was intended to sort out the disgusting corruption in the Temple.

 

[Nova2216]

Claims of a literal history of supernatural events.

The condoning of slavery.

The commands to kill and on large scales.

OT morality in general. Lengthy issues.
Stoning, killing babies, reserving virgins of conquered peoples, slaughtering animals for atonement, etc.

The evidence of the life of Jesus. death, burial, resurrection.

The growth of the population of humans from very few people.

The scientific case for evolution.

The fate of those who never hear the gospel.

All the good people I love who are not Christian, and Those that follow Christianity who don't get the Bible exactly right but mean well.

Dogmatic and legalistic faith, and the interpretation arguments, and errors.

Nature produces children from incest, adultery. The Savage ecosystems, and catastrophic sufferings of nature.

The reason why innocence must pay for the guilty to redeem sinners.

12 objections! I don't see answers for these dilemmas.

That is quite a list.

Are you looking for reasons not to believe?

Are you willing to accept (Deut. 29:29) for some of those answers?

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.


Thanks