Christians: Why Continue to Associate the Word with Historical Fact?

[Treasure Hunter]

Has the Word not existed since the beginning? Does the Word not transcend the world and historical fact?

So often Christians speak in the past tense, saying “Christ died for my sins” instead of “Christ dies for my sins.” Don’t get me wrong. I think this is fine for the people who are young in their faith and new to relationship with the Son. However, this seems to be universal among all of modern Christianity.

The flesh is attached to the world and so associates reality with the world and world history. To be in relationship with the Son and with the Spirit of Truth is to gradually associate reality with the Word and the Kingdom of Heaven. The Word has existed since the beginning before the world came into being. The story of the Son has existed since the beginning before the world came into being. Resurrection, Christ, and every aspect of the story has existed since the beginning before the world came into being.

This is not to say that Jesus did not die on the cross and resurrect around 2,000 years ago. The point is that regardless of world history, the Word, resurrection, and salvation has always existed. Jesus began to fulfill the promise of the union of Heaven and Earth, the union of flesh and soul, the union of the Groom and the Bride, and the union of the Father and Son.

Still, the Word has always existed, so I would encourage Christians to decouple the story from historical events. It’s not “this is how the story went.” It’s “this is how the story goes.” The difference is meaningful.

 

[Eyes to See]

We say he "died" past tense, and not "dies" present tense, because he died "once for all times." He does not need to continually die:

"So also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many."-Hebrews 9:8.

"For the death that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time."-Romans 6:10.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

We say he "died" past tense, and not "dies" present tense, because he died "once for all times." He does not need to continually die:

"So also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many."-Hebrews 9:8.

"For the death that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time."-Romans 6:10.

I’m not proposing that Christ continually dies. Rather, I’m promoting the idea that Christ dies for sins instead of Christ died for sins. It’s a hard teaching but let those people who can receive it do so.

 

[Eyes to See]

Ok. But I did just show you two scriptures, and there are more, that refer to Christ as having "died" and having done so once, and only needing to do so one time.

 

[Eyes to See]

Christ is alive now. Scripture says he lives eternally he has immortality and can never die again. So it would not be correct to say that he "dies" present tense when he is alive and cannot die ever again.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Ok. But I did just show you two scriptures, and there are more, that refer to Christ as having "died" and having done so once, and only needing to do so one time.

Christ is alive now. Scripture says he lives eternally he has immortality and can never die again. So it would not be correct to say that he "dies" present tense when he is alive and cannot die ever again.

I am aware that the Bible places the Word within a historical perspective, and I will restate that there is truth in that. However, the Word (the story) transcends history.

 

[Windwalker]

I am aware that the Bible places the Word within a historical perspective, and I will restate that there is truth in that. However, the Word (the story) transcends history.

Would you likewise agree that "the creation", while set in the story as an event of the past, is actually continuous in every moment of time even today? That it's not "God created", but rather "God creates"?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Would you likewise agree that "the creation", while set in the story as an event of the past, is actually continuous in every moment of time even today? That it's not "God created", but rather "God creates"?

I shouldn’t have said “It’s not” with “this is how the story went”. I’m trying not to set the two perspectives up in opposition with each other. There is truth in the third person, historical perspective.

I’m just trying to highlight the truth in the first person, transcendent perspective. We are meant to go beyond the perspective of world history.

So, yeah, we all start with God created. We begin with that distance, as a bit of an outsider to the story of the Son. The story is situated within a historical context. As our relationship with the Son and the Word evolves, eventually the Genesis stories reveal themselves to us differently.

 

[Kenny]

I’m not proposing that Christ continually dies. Rather, I’m promoting the idea that Christ dies for sins instead of Christ died for sins. It’s a hard teaching but let those people who can receive it do so.

Ok. But I did just show you two scriptures, and there are more, that refer to Christ as having "died" and having done so once, and only needing to do so one time.

I will have to go with Eyes to See.. seems pretty black and white while "dies for sins" has no logic. You have to stretch that to make it work IMO

 

[74x12]

Has the Word not existed since the beginning? Does the Word not transcend the world and historical fact?

So often Christians speak in the past tense, saying “Christ died for my sins” instead of “Christ dies for my sins.” Don’t get me wrong. I think this is fine for the people who are young in their faith and new to relationship with the Son. However, this seems to be universal among all of modern Christianity.

The flesh is attached to the world and so associates reality with the world and world history. To be in relationship with the Son and with the Spirit of Truth is to gradually associate reality with the Word and the Kingdom of Heaven. The Word has existed since the beginning before the world came into being. The story of the Son has existed since the beginning before the world came into being. Resurrection, Christ, and every aspect of the story has existed since the beginning before the world came into being.

This is not to say that Jesus did not die on the cross and resurrect around 2,000 years ago. The point is that regardless of world history, the Word, resurrection, and salvation has always existed. Jesus began to fulfill the promise of the union of Heaven and Earth, the union of flesh and soul, the union of the Groom and the Bride, and the union of the Father and Son.

Still, the Word has always existed, so I would encourage Christians to decouple the story from historical events. It’s not “this is how the story went.” It’s “this is how the story goes.” The difference is meaningful.

You might like this then. Genesis 1:1 is present tense. In the beginning God creates the heavens and earth ... But most english translations make it past tense not acknowledging that God is still working on it; so the 7th day is not yet here for us except in foretaste. That is by the holy Spirit we can rest in God and he in us. But the final rest is yet to come for us. But present tense to God; he already rests in the new Jerusalem. Even though he still working always for us because we're still in the timeline and moving forward. But time is nothing to God. It's perfectly still like a frozen river or a film reel. He's eternal so not held by time.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

You might like this then. Genesis 1:1 is present tense. In the beginning God creates the heavens and earth ... But most english translations make it past tense not acknowledging that God is still working on it; so the 7th day is not yet here for us except in foretaste. That is by the holy Spirit we can rest in God and he in us. But the final rest is yet to come for us. But present tense to God; he already rests in the new Jerusalem. Even though he still working always for us because we're still in the timeline and moving forward. But time is nothing to God. It's perfectly still like a frozen river or a film reel. He's eternal so not held by time.

Still, only those drawn by the Father will be raised up into the Kingdom. If the Father is resting, then he is not drawing you to him, right? So be sure that he is not resting.