Church plans on burning Korans this Saturday, 9/11/10

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Holder, Axelrod Denounce Florida Church's Planned Quran Burning

IMO this is nothing short of hate speech and should not be protected by law. Very simply, if I were the president, I would issue an executive order to forbid this Koran-burning from taking place. This act will solve nothing and only stir up more anger, something which our society and our world has way too much of anyway. And yes that means that if these idiots are carted off to jail then so be it.

Not only that, these radical Christians are threatening national security. These sorts of incidents are exactly what fuel radical terrorists, because they can use this hatred of them to fuel their hatred of us. Seriously, what do our idiots not get about this.

Finally, where is the condemnation from the Republicans?

 

[Father Heathen]

"Your rights end where my feelings begin" is a sorry way of looking at it.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

"Your rights end where my feelings begin" is a sorry way of looking at it.

Wait, so you're okay with this?! How would you feel it a group of Muslims lit a stack of Bibles on fire?

 

[Skwim]

Holder, Axelrod Denounce Florida Church's Planned Quran Burning

IMO this is nothing short of hate speech and should not be protected by law.

"In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group."

Source: Wikipedia

​

I fail to see how burning one's copy of the Koran would qualify under these provisions. It certainly doesn't incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.

"The United States federal government and state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. See, e.g., Gitlow v. New York (1925), incorporating the free speech clause. Generally speaking, the First Amendment prohibits governments from regulating the content of speech, subject to a few recognized exceptions such as defamation[33] and incitement to riot.[34] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[35] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government, and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities. See, e.g., Yates v. United States (1957), Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

Source: Wikipedia
​

 

[Adramelek]

[/code]]"Your rights end where my feelings begin" is a sorry way of looking at it.

Words of wisdom Father Heathen, words of wisdom. Frubals coming your way. America is a free country not a fascist one. The U.S. government is forbiden via the Constitution from preventing anybody from expressing their opinion. If these people want to burn the koran, I say more power to them, though I really don't know what purpose it would serve. But if that's what they want to do, then they have the right to do it. Just like I have the right to burn a copy of the holy bible or the koran if I wanted to and just like a christian has the right to burn a copy of the "Satanic Bible" if they wanted to. As a Satanist it wouldn't offend me in the least, as Satanists are born with thick skins. I for one want nothing to do with profane societies corrupt life style, therefore their actions mean nothing to me. It is only until they begin to infringe upon my personal rights as an individual American that I will retaliate like a sleeping lion rudely awakened. :bat:

 

[Skwim]

If these people want to burn the koran, I say more power to them, though I really don't know what purpose it would serve.

Publicity. Publicity. Publicity.

 

[Adramelek]

Publicity. Publicity. Publicity.

Yeah, more than likely... their own attempt at lesser black magical shock value.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

The biggest problem in my opinion is that when this guy burns the Qurans, it's going to further endanger out troops in the Middle East. There is no way that the radicals won't retaliate.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Good god some of those responses are disturbing.

"In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group."

Source: Wikipedia

​

I fail to see how burning one's copy of the Koran would qualify under these provisions. It certainly doesn't incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.

"The United States federal government and state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. See, e.g., Gitlow v. New York (1925), incorporating the free speech clause. Generally speaking, the First Amendment prohibits governments from regulating the content of speech, subject to a few recognized exceptions such as defamation[33] and incitement to riot.[34] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[35] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government, and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities. See, e.g., Yates v. United States (1957), Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

Source: Wikipedia
​

You omitted a key part of the definition of hate speech: "The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic." Bottom line, Muslims are a clear minority in this nation.

In case you haven't noticed, the level of militancy on the Right (don't even try to compare it to the Left, they're not even in the same league) has skyrocketed since Obama took office. Hell, even the FBI has had to keep their eye on some of these groups.

I hate to be this harsh, but the way some people blindly defend free speech as some sort of right to say absolutely anything they want, when that is NOT what free speech is, is incredibly naive. You can't yell Fire in a crowded theater, and that is exactly what these morons are effectively going to do.

Words of wisdom Father Heathen, words of wisdom. Frubals coming your way. America is a free country not a fascist one. The U.S. government is forbiden via the Constitution from preventing anybody from expressing their opinion. If these people want to burn the koran, I say more power to them, though I really don't know what purpose it would serve. But if that's what they want to do, then they have the right to do it. Just like I have the right to burn a copy of the holy bible or the koran if I wanted to and just like a christian has the right to burn a copy of the "Satanic Bible" if they wanted to. As a Satanist it wouldn't offend me in the least, as Satanists are born with thick skins. I for one want nothing to do with profane societies corrupt life style, therefore their actions mean nothing to me. It is only until they begin to infringe upon my personal rights as an individual American that I will retaliate like a sleeping lion rudely awakened. :bat:

So in other words, you'll use violence. Good to know.

The biggest problem in my opinion is that when this guy burns the Qurans, it's going to further endanger out troops in the Middle East. There is no way that the radicals won't retaliate.

Hey, what's a couple more lives lost. With the radical Right, life is cheap.

 

[Penumbra]

I am strongly against it, but also strongly believe it should be legally allowed.

It's free speech that, although rather "hateful" in the sense that they hate the Qur'an and the religion of Islam, makes no threats or directly incites violence. We can't just go around banning things we don't like. It's an ignorant and harmful thing for them to burn Qur'ans, and may indirectly cause the loss of life through violent protests and backlash, but it's a foundational concept in the country that people have free speech.

 

[gzusfrk]

Yea they have the "right "to burn it, but when they say we burn it cause were christians, well they need to read there bibles, start spending there time helping people instead of starting fires.

 

[Venatoris]

Yea they have the "right "to burn it, but when they say we burn it cause were christians, well they need to read there bibles, start spending there time helping people instead of starting fires.

Actually, they don't. The city has denied them permits to hold the gathering or stage a bonfire. The cops are going to be watching and if they so much as strike a match they will be fined and the fire will be extinguished. If they try to push it they will most likely be arrested.

 

[Penumbra]

Actually, they don't. The city has denied them permits to hold the gathering or stage a bonfire. The cops are going to be watching and if they so much as strike a match they will be fined and the fire will be extinguished. If they try to push it they will most likely be arrested.

City permits don't trump the Constitution of the country. Depending on how much the defendants and their lawyers care, they could likely win the case I think.

 

[Skwim]

You omitted a key part of the definition of hate speech: "The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic." Bottom line, Muslims are a clear minority in this nation.

Not at all. My point is that regardless of the group, burning the Koran has not "incite[d] violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group." Nor has it "disparage[d] or intimidate[d] a protected individual or group." And I haven't seen any indication that it's Jones' intention to do so.

 

[Venatoris]

City permits don't trump the Constitution of the country. Depending on how much the defendants and their lawyers care, they could likely win the case I think.

I don't think it would even go to court, it's a misdemeanor. Fines and a slap on the wrist at most. My point was that your rights can only be exercised within the letter of the law. The city bylaws are not going to change, so these idiots will never be able to publicly burn 200 copies of the Quran. If you want to burn one in the privacy of your own home that's okay, but you can't start a bonfire regardless of what it is you're burning.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't think it would even go to court, it's a misdemeanor. Fines and a slap on the wrist at most. My point was that your rights can only be exercised within the letter of the law. The city bylaws are not going to change, so these idiots will never be able to publicly burn 200 copies of the Quran. If you want to burn one in the privacy of your own home that's okay, but you can't start a bonfire regardless of what it is you're burning.

They can appeal to higher courts. State supreme court and national supreme court. The city laws don't have to change for them to win their case.

That's a big reason why higher courts exist- so that people can argue against regional laws that violate the constitution and other national laws.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

They should throw themselves in the fire and rid us of their stupidity.

 

[Venatoris]

They can appeal to higher courts. State supreme court and national supreme court. The city laws don't have to change for them to win their case.

That's a big reason why higher courts exist- so that people can argue against regional laws that violate the constitution and other national laws.

This would be laughed out of higher courts. Freedom of speech is still intact. You can say whatever you want but you can't light **** on fire. It's a safety issue. Hence, the city burning ordinances.

 

[Penumbra]

This would be laughed out of higher courts. Freedom of speech is still intact. You can say whatever you want but you can't light **** on fire. It's a safety issue. Hence, the city burning ordinances.

A safety issue is a masquerade for them not wanting to let them burn Qur'ans.

I don't think it would be laughed out of courts if it were appealed from a lower court, especially with all of this publicity. It's the first amendment.

However ignorant it may be, lighting things on fire is a fairly common form of protest.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Actually, they don't. The city has denied them permits to hold the gathering or stage a bonfire. The cops are going to be watching and if they so much as strike a match they will be fined and the fire will be extinguished. If they try to push it they will most likely be arrested.

GOOD!! Arrest those mother****ers if they even ATTEMPT to burn.

City permits don't trump the Constitution of the country. Depending on how much the defendants and their lawyers care, they could likely win the case I think.

How quickly states' and local rights disappear when they're no longer expedient!

Not at all. My point is that regardless of the group, burning the Koran has not "incite[d] violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group." Nor has it "disparage[d] or intimidate[d] a protected individual or group." And I haven't seen any indication that it's Jones' intention to do so.

Well yeah, because nobody on the entire planet believes that the Koran is a holy book. So burning the Koran isn't targeted at any particular group.

They should throw themselves in the fire and rid us of their stupidity.

Well, maybe I wouldn't go THAT far...