Churchianity has Hidden the REAL God and the REAL Christ for 2,000 years!

[sojourner]

But the readings in the RCC this very weekend include Jesus saying in the Gospel of Mathew that He did not come to destroy the law. In fact He made it stronger.

Ha! I just preached on this text this morning. And Jesus didn't "make it stronger." Jesus changed the empasis and meaning of "observe the Law." "Observe" in this context doesn't mean "blind and absolute obedience." In fact, the word here doesn't mean "law" at all, as we understand that word. It means "instruction."

You do not have to kill someone to be guilty of murder. You only have to hate them. And you do not have to sleep with someone to commit adultry. You only have to have lust in your heart. So all ten commandments are still in effect and even stronger.

Except that's not what Matthew actually has Jesus say. Read it again.

This includes remembering the sabbath day. So I do not see why you would question seventh day adventists.

Jesus never mentions Shabbat here.

They are at least following God's law while churches that claim the first day of the week is the new sabbath are only fooling themselves. So yes, churchianity has hidden God and His laws from the people.

I submit that they are doing precisely what Jesus preached against. This is exactly why those who lack the proper education and training in theology shouldn't play with theological and exegetical matches. You don't know what you're doing, and you only end up hurting people.

 

[sooda]

I know nothing about these religions. But I know there were a number of posts saying that Jesus said there are only two connandments. Love God and love your neighbor. But the readings in the RCC this very weekend include Jesus saying in the Gospel of Mathew that He did not come to destroy the law. In fact He made it stronger. You do not have to kill someone to be guilty of murder. You only have to hate them. And you do not have to sleep with someone to commit adultry. You only have to have lust in your heart. So all ten commandments are still in effect and even stronger. This includes remembering the sabbath day. So I do not see why you would question seventh day adventists. They are at least following God's law while churches that claim the first day of the week is the new sabbath are only fooling themselves. So yes, churchianity has hidden God and His laws from the people.

So go to church on Saturday is that suits you.. Christians celebrate the Resurrection on Sunday.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So go to church on Saturday is that suits you.. Christians celebrate the Resurrection on Sunday.

That is wonderful. You can celebrate anything you want on any day you want. The commandment simple says REMEMBER the sabbath. And when someone says that the first day of the week is the "Christian" sabbath, they are forgetting the true meaning. That God rested on the seventh day, not the first.

 

[sooda]

That is wonderful. You can celebrate anything you want on any day you want. The commandment simple says REMEMBER the sabbath. And when someone says that the first day of the week is the "Christian" sabbath, they are forgetting the true meaning. That God rested on the seventh day, not the first.

How do you know what the first day of the week is? We have had so many calendars over the ages.

According to international standard ISO 8601, Monday is the first day of the week.

The Sabbath Day for religious observance can be Saturday or Sunday ..

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Ha! I just preached on this text this morning. And Jesus didn't "make it stronger." Jesus changed the empasis and meaning of "observe the Law." "Observe" in this context doesn't mean "blind and absolute obedience." In fact, the word here doesn't mean "law" at all, as we understand that word. It means "instruction."


Except that's not what Matthew actually has Jesus say. Read it again.


Jesus never mentions Shabbat here.


I submit that they are doing precisely what Jesus preached against. This is exactly why those who lack the proper education and training in theology shouldn't play with theological and exegetical matches. You don't know what you're doing, and you only end up hurting people.

Well again, that is your interpretation. Mathew 5:21-22 is very clear that hating someone puts you in the same danger as killing someone. And verses 27-28 are very clear that lust is the same as adultery. And he does not have to mention sabbath. He says not one letter of the law shall change. He also says anyone who breaks the law and teaches others to break the law is in danger of judgement. Perhaps you need to examine what you have been teaching.

 

[sojourner]

Well again, that is your interpretation. Mathew 5:21-22 is very clear that hating someone puts you in the same danger as killing someone. And verses 27-28 are very clear that lust is the same as adultery. And he does not have to mention sabbath. He says not one letter of the law shall change. He also says anyone who breaks the law and teaches others to break the law is in danger of judgement. Perhaps you need to examine what you have been teaching.

It’s obvious you need a course in exegetical work. It’s all about interpretation, but there are well-founded interpretations based on critical evidence, and silly interpretations based on nothing but conjecture. The above is an example of choice B.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It’s obvious you need a course in exegetical work. It’s all about interpretation, but there are well-founded interpretations based on critical evidence, and silly interpretations based on nothing but conjecture. The above is an example of choice B.

It is nice to know that the plain, clear words of Jesus are conjecture. I need no more critical evidence.

 

[sojourner]

It is nice to know that the plain, clear words of Jesus are conjecture. I need no more critical evidence.

1) In what way can ancient, foreign texts, written in ancient, foreign languages by anonymous writers, translated multiple times into modern English, coming to us via several vastly different cultures, be “plain and clear?” Heck, you didn’t even read the English version correctly when you regurgitated it to me. I had to correct you.
2) You apparently don’t understand that these aren’t laws, in the way we understand law.
3) you’re not taking under consideration the differences between Judaic culture and what was obviously happening in the Matthean community to cause the writer to have Jesus emphasize something that would not have been of particular concern to a Jesus living in Galilee.

But yeah. You go on and pretend that this is oh-so-easy.

 

[coconut theology]

Yes but they say if their tradition differs from the Bible, they will follow tradition. Such a blind view.

It's actually worse than that. For Roman Catholicism teaches that the Bible is the "written tradition", and then the so-called "apostolic tradition", and yet the Magisterium sits over both, judging both, deciding both, outside of both.

 

[coconut theology]

How do you know what the first day of the week is? We have had so many calendars over the ages.

According to international standard ISO 8601, Monday is the first day of the week.

The Sabbath Day for religious observance can be Saturday or Sunday ..

You are teaching that Jesus resurrected on Monday? That Pentecost (Acts 2) was on Monday? That seems to contradict what you stated earlier:

So go to church on Saturday is that suits you.. Christians celebrate the Resurrection on Sunday.

 

[sooda]

You are teaching that Jesus resurrected on Monday? That Pentecost (Acts 2) was on Monday? That seems to contradict what you stated earlier:

The Bible says worship on the 7th day.. and Monday is the 1st day of the week.

 

[metis]

Isn't it rather "interesting" that some believe that we Catholics don't understand the Bible, the canon of which was selected by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

But what also is truly pathetic, imo, is that many of these other churches use some item(s) as what are called "wedge issues" to differentiate between what they believe are the good guys with the white hat (them) with those whom are in another denomination who wear the black hats (all or many others). The JW's say we don't say God's name properly; the SDA's say we don't observe the right day of the week; etc.. And this supposedly makes us really bad hombres.

BTW, just to be clear, I don't go to a church that attacks other denominations because all of us Christians are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ and act accordingly. Some apparently didn't get Jesus' and Paul's memo, called the "Gospel", on that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There are two kinds of people who call themselves Christian. 1. Those who read the word of God and believe it means what it says. 2. Those who read the word of God and look for any excuse to say it does not mean what it says. Examples. The soul that sins will die mean you have an immortal soul that cannot die. The wages of sin is death means you will be tortured forever. Think not that I am come to destroy the law means that I am doing away with the law. Keep the commandments means you do not have to keep the commandments. Really twisted logic from really twisted minds.

 

[sooda]

Isn't it rather "interesting" that some believe that we Catholics don't understand the Bible, the canon of which was selected by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

But what also is truly pathetic, imo, is that many of these other churches use some item(s) as what are called "wedge issues" to differentiate between what they believe are the good guys with the white hat (them) with those whom are in another denomination who wear the black hats (all or many others).

The JW's say we don't say God's name properly; the SDA's say we don't observe the right day of the week; etc.. And this supposedly makes us really bad hombres.

BTW, just to be clear, I don't go to a church that attacks other denominations because all of us Christians are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ and act accordingly.

Some apparently didn't get Jesus' and Paul's memo, called the "Gospel", on that.

The fuss about what is the first day of the week, or what was the first day of the week is particularly silly considering we don't use a lunar calendar and that there have been many calendar changes over the centuries.

We don't even know what the first day of creation was... or what day of the week it was. So, when do you start counting.

 

[sooda]

There are two kinds of people who call themselves Christian. 1. Those who read the word of God and believe it means what it says. 2. Those who read the word of God and look for any excuse to say it does not mean what it says. Examples. The soul that sins will die mean you have an immortal soul that cannot die. The wages of sin is death means you will be tortured forever. Think not that I am come to destroy the law means that I am doing away with the law. Keep the commandments means you do not have to keep the commandments. Really twisted logic from really twisted minds.

Twisted? You're passing judgment on other Christians again as if only you have the answers.

Jacob wrestled with God you know.. A faith that has never been questioned doesn't make much sense. Even Abraham questioned God and lobbied for leniency for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

In post 212 the writer says that some people think they are bad hombres. I for one, do not think anyone is bad. I think many are misinformed due to a steady diet of false ideas pushed on them by churrches that do not teach from the Bible. And they are too afraid to question anything because they believe that church will do something bad to them.

 

[sooda]

In post 212 the writer says that some people think they are bad hombres. I for one, do not think anyone is bad. I think many are misinformed due to a steady diet of false ideas pushed on them by churrches that do not teach from the Bible. And they are too afraid to question anything because they believe that church will do something bad to them.

But, you know your church got it all right thru all the translations down thru the centuries.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Twisted? You're passing judgment on other Christians again as if only you have the answers.

Jacob wrestled with God you know.. A faith that has never been questioned doesn't make much sense. Even Abraham questioned God and lobbied for leniency for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I never stop questioning. If anyone can show me where I am wrong I will admit it. Only those with false beliefs are afraid to question.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

But, you know your church got it all right thru all the translations down thru the centuries.

Can you give a specfic answer as to how Jesus saying "keep the commandments" means we do not need to keep the commandments? Be specific and quote verses. Have a go at it.

 

[coconut theology]

The Bible says worship on the 7th day.. and Monday is the 1st day of the week.

Aren't you telling me that you worship on the day of the resurrection of Jesus, which you are claiming to now be Monday?

So go to church on Saturday is that suits you.. Christians celebrate the Resurrection on Sunday.

Didn't you just say that is was 'ok' to go to church on 'Saturday'?

As for Calendrical changes, all of those are accounted for by the Bible, History and Chronologists, and all clearly show that the week has remained the same since time began, for that is how the so-called 'Jews', at present know the 7th day, and how the Christians who keep God's sabbath definitely know the 7th day, and how Christians the world over know when Jesus arose from the dead, being the first day of the week; and how the Muslim population know when Friday is, for each of group has preserved in themselves for the last 2,000 years, (Muslims the last 1400-1600 years depending on one's understanding of the origins of Islam):

God stated the week in Creation (Genesis 2:1-3), and stated it again at the Exodus (Exodus 16; 20:8-11), and again in the days of Jesus Christ (Luke 4), and again in the days of the Apostles (Acts, Hebrews), and again in the final days of John (Revelation 1:10, 10:6, 14:6-7, etc), along with his own Gospel (written after Revelation), as well as the prophets fortelling of the continued keeping of the sabbath, the 7th day, long after the Cross, as Jesus (Matthew 24:20); Isaiah (Isaiah 56:1-8; 58:13, 66:22-23), etc.

Loss of time through Calendrical changes? Are you telling me that God not only lost track of time, or that He wouldn't faithfully remind mankind of the proper time that He set in motion from the beginning? Are you telling me that the population of Jews, scattered the world over on several occasions, all lost tract of when the 7th day was at the same time, or over the centuries (and where is the evidence of this)?, or that the body of Christians (made up of both repenting Jew and Gentile) also scattered the world over, somehow also forgot all at the same time when the 6th day, the 7th day and the first day of the week is? Are you suggesting that the chronologists, among the pagans, heathen, atheists, sea farers, and or Muslims, Jews and Christians, all somehow couldn't discern the sunrise and sunset, then phases of the moon, the rotations of the earth, the position of the stars and the days of the week were so lost as to you (who claim to honour the resurrection of Jesus Christ upon the first day of the week) cannot actually tell, and are now suggesting that the actual first day of the week is Monday (and that you know this, and still go to church on Sunday)?

Are you suggesting that the days of the week, are affected by the days of the month?