Civil War: Southerners remember Confederate president

[kai]

On Saturday, a group will gather in Alabama to mark the 150th anniversary of the inauguration of the first president of the Confederacy, 11 Southern slave states that left the US in 1860 and 1861. They say they are honouring their ancestors and their heritage but, as the BBC's Daniel Nasaw reports, critics view the group as celebrating slavery.

BBC News - Civil War: Southerners remember Confederate president

what do you think?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think that they are celebrating slavery.

It's a matter of perspective. For them, it's the War of Northern Agression and the Civil War is about state's rights.

A very similar thing is how Democrats and Republicans look at the same thing and see it wildly differently.

 

[Revoltingest]

What Willie said.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What Willie said.

I agree.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree.

Of course you do.

 

[Bismillah]

state's rights to promote the institution of slavery right?

 

[Revoltingest]

state's rights to promote the institution of slavery right?

The right to secede from the union looked even more important, since slavery looked entrenched in the slave states.

 

[Bismillah]

The right to secede from the union looked even more important, since slavery looked entrenched in the slave states.

And why was the right to secede such a big deal? Because the North put limits and threatened the institution of slavery right?

 

[Father Heathen]

On Saturday, a group will gather in Alabama to mark the 150th anniversary of the inauguration of the first president of the Confederacy, 11 Southern slave states that left the US in 1860 and 1861. They say they are honouring their ancestors and their heritage but, as the BBC's Daniel Nasaw reports, critics view the group as celebrating slavery.

BBC News - Civil War: Southerners remember Confederate president

what do you think?

Wacky inbred rednecks.

 

[Revoltingest]

And why was the right to secede such a big deal? Because the North put limits and threatened the institution of slavery right?

At the time, they were fighting over slavery in new states. Certainly,
fights in the south loomed. But they had other differences too.

 

[Bismillah]

fights in the south loomed. But they had other differences too.

Sure did and I would argue most of them resulted from the institution of slavery. Besides being their entire economic model, plantations and agrarian based societies were the ultimate model for "small government" modes of rule.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't think they should remember this. I speak as a Louisianian btw, so I'm not an outsider speaking here. This is the remembrence of a horrible part of southern history and also one of the worst mistakes ever made in our nation's history. The Confederacy should never have happened.

 

[Bismillah]

The Confederacy should never have happened.

I think it was a necessary part of our history.

 

[Kathryn]

Native coon *** and descendent of slave owners here.

Oh, and my children and grandchildren are the descendents of slaves.

My ancestors - a whole slew of them - fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War. During the 1800s however, most of my ancestors didn't own a single slave. And yet, they fought and shed their blood for states' rights - and against the hypocrisy of the northern states, who seemed aghast at the institution of slavery while 7 year old children worked 15 hours each day in northern factories and coal mines.

The bottom line is this - people fought in the Civil War on both sides for a wide variety of reasons, some noble and some decidedly ignoble.

 

[Revoltingest]

Native coon *** and descendent of slave owners here.

Oh, and my children and grandchildren are the descendents of slaves.

My ancestors - a whole slew of them - fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War. During the 1800s however, most of my ancestors didn't own a single slave. And yet, they fought and shed their blood for states' rights - and against the hypocrisy of the northern states, who seemed aghast at the institution of slavery while 7 year old children worked 15 hours each day in northern factories and coal mines.

The bottom line is this - people fought in the Civil War on both sides for a wide variety of reasons, some noble and some decidedly ignoble.

I'd say that child labor isn't as heinous as slavery.
The biggest initial fighting was in the territories, where there were no
kids in factories, but the south wanted to establish slavery (eg, Kansas).
I calculated that the north was 0.7% more moral than the south.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, Revoltingest, I can't argue with that.

Slavery is a heinous institution and I am glad it was abolished. Same goes for child labor.

 

[TJ73]

Slavery and the Confederacy are eternally intertwined, weather deserved or not. many people will never be able to accept the argument that it was not about slavery. It may have been for much more than that but it is clear and indisputable that slavery was of the highest priority no matter what else was involved. It has been hard to accept people wanting to celebrate their Confederate southern heritage/identity when it is so heavily tainted by the wrongs against blacks and the attempts to minimize the long felt effects of it.
I constantly hear, to this day even from people i am close with, it's over, you/they have all the same rights as everybody else, get over it.
I find it in bad taste to celebrate what is so deeply intertwined with such a painful and hateful institution. It is like reminding people that although the union survived and slavery is abolished we still would have supported the Confederacy and it's rights to slavery had we been born then. We are proud of those that tried to keep slavery alive. Would we justify celebrating German identity/heritage by erecting statues of Hitler because he was a great military man that unified Germany? He sucked and what he stood for sucked and no matter what good he may have done for his country no one would ever want to celebrate him and say, well the Jews aren't being held in camps and exterminated today, get over it. That would be completely insensitive and cruel.
Bottom line, had I been around one of those Confederates, I would have been hurt or captured or enslaved. So I don't like them and what they stood for. Someone that wants to bring attention to their efforts tells me they would have supported the treatment I would have received. that's how I feel, anyway.

 

[Kathryn]

Don't get me wrong - I find the idea of waving a confederate flag around basically repulsive. I am not "proud" of slavery in my family. But I am proud of the achievements of my southern ancestors (most of whom were not slave owners). Heck, I am even proud of one particular slave owner, because of his excellent treatment of his servants (black and white - many of which he freed and gave land to), who were also very loyal to him and to his family.

Their descendents to this day have a close relationship with our family, with both families attending weddings, funerals, holiday gatherings, etc. with each other. My family continued to employ members of that family, well, actually to this very day.

One of my father's closest childhood friends was from that family - both boys were the same age and grew up together playing on the farm. His mother and grandmother and great grandmother - all the way back - worked willingly and happily for my family, and she was like a second mother to my dad and grandmother to me. Our families are entertwined together for many generations.

Some of my fondest memories are of sitting in a big sunny kitchen watching Julie whip up a chocolate cake and waiting for the spoon to lick. I remember my dad stomping into the kitchen in muddy boots and Julie turning around to him and hollering, "Get yore scrawny rear end out of my kitchen in those boots!" and "hitting" him with a dishtowel, and I remember my dad's shamefaced look as he mumbled, "Yes m'am, I'm sorry!" and ducked out the back door.

Southern heritage is not just about slavery. In fact, the vast majority of southerners who are proud of their heritage are not descendents of slave owners and are not proud at all, or supportive, of the institution of slavery. What they are proud of is a legacy of strength, independence, honor, graciousness, and bravery. Settling the southern US wasn't easy, and most southerners and their ancestors didn't grow up sipping mint juleps on a plantation house veranda. Most were dirt farmers carving out a living for their families with their own muscle.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Slave owners thought more of their slaves than they did "white Trash" who they could neither usefully employ nor control.

I wonder whose descendent's are doing the celebrating of the confederacy today.

 

[Rakhel]

I had Southern ancestors who owned slaves and Southern ancestors who were dirt farmers. I am very proud to be descendant of both. I find nothing wrong with the south celebrating an era most wish would just disappear and be forgotten. I think that is the shame. To be told to forget.

I knew nothing of Southern American history until I moved to the south. I knew nothing of King or Dahmer or even the Little Rock nine. The closest I ever came to understanding history of that era was a small story in our English book talking about a black Vietnam vet coming home, thinking that voting in 1972 Mississippi would be an easy matter.

Now we just celebrate the civil rights movement without understanding the motives behind it. And when some try, they get shouted down as pro-slavery or anti-American(yes, I have heard this.)

As far as state holidays are concerned, Arkansas has been celebrating Robert E Lee day(Jan 19) longer than Martin L King day. They also celebrate Daisy Gatson Bates day on Presidents' day. States are granted the right to observe and make whatever holidays they wish. Even if others object. It is their way of remembering their history. Good, bad, and everything in between.