Clarifications on Christianity

[PearlSeeker]

It is not the only setting where he denied divinity or asked to hide his (so-called) true nature.

As I said (again and again) the demand to keep quiet doesn't apply to divinity but to Messiahship. IMO there is no "high Christology" in synoptic gospels.

Why the hidding? I think gospels try to explain why Jesus didn't proclaim himself as the Messiah and why was he executed despite being the Messiah.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I will wait till I meet one. That seems to be more of a Jehovah Witness position.

say what???? you do realize you are talking to a jew don't you?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I can accept that you have a different perspective... I would agree that it was God manifesting in the flesh.

I think our minds will never fully comprehend the totality of God... but none the less, as it is written:

Psalm 2: “The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, ‘Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!’ . .

Against the Lord AND against His Anointed... separate yet one.

The Father is the Spirit, and the Son is the flesh. I and my Father are one. If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father.

 

[Kenny]

say what???? you do realize you are talking to a jew don't you?

Ok???? But you mentioned Christians, which was what I mentioned... so I'm waiting to meet that Christian that matches your statement.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ok???? But you mentioned Christians, which was what I mentioned... so I'm waiting to meet that Christian that matches your statement.

Sure. JRR Tolkien.

But please don't try to claim this is a "JW belief." LOL

 

[Kenny]

Sure. JRR Tolkien.

But please don't try to claim this is a "JW belief." LOL

LOL... Ok... 1 (if he does) - but he doesn't hang around all the pastors I hang around with nor have I met him.

 

[BrightShadow]

As I said (again and again) the demand to keep quiet doesn't apply to divinity but to Messiahship. IMO there is no "high Christology" in synoptic gospels.

So, are you in agreement that Jesus denied being God in Matthew, Mark and Luke?
Are you saying Jesus only claimed to be god in John?
Okay according to John - Jesus denied being God in the following verses...

Jesus denied the doctrine was his. [John 7:16] that means he denied being God.
Again in [John 14:24] he said it is not his word. So that is denying that he was God. If it is not his word then how can he be God?
He came not to do his own will [John 6:38} but the will of the real God. Conclusion he was not God and by default he is admitting that he was not God.
He had no power of his own. [John 5:30] That means he denied divinity.
[John 14:28] Real God is greater than him? So unless they were two gods ( More powerful God & less powerful god) - then Jesus denied being the greater God.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum but I liked the idea of debating religions so I decided to join up! I'm a muslim btw.

I would like to start off my posts by a couple things I was wondering about Christianity and would be interested to hear thoughts regarding this questions.

1) Why did people believe Mary was a virgin and gave birth to Jesus through a miracle? As opposed to people saying she committed adultery which is what most people would normally assume.

2) Since Christianity is considered an Abrahamic Monotheistic religion, and since all the prophets in Abrahamic religions prior to Christianity and after (i.e. Islam) always preached that god is one, without mention of any trinity (to my knowledge), wouldn't that prove against it?

I can split these into different threads if needed.

Thank you!

Welcome. Christianity was born during a time of Hellenization of Judaism, which means that Greek religion and philosophy were mixed in. Zeus would sleep with anyone and anything lol.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

2. The long - The Word had to come sinless like Adam was before he sinned. Had The Word been birthed by a man, he would have carried the sin-nature of man and would not have been able to fulfill the redeeming of mankind. Romans 5:14

Yeah but it’d be a neater trick lol.

 

[metis]

I will wait till I meet one

Hey, I'm here!

 

[Kenny]

Hey, I'm here!

LOL... I'm going to learn you into right thinking

 

[PearlSeeker]

Are you saying Jesus only claimed to be god in John?

Yes.

Okay according to John - Jesus denied being God in the following verses...

He just repeats he is the divine agent, speaking and working on behalf of Father (because only he was with him before the creation of the world). Everything in G-John is variations on a theme from John 1:1-18.

 

[PearlSeeker]

[John 14:28] Real God is greater than him? So unless they were two gods ( More powerful God & less powerful god) - then Jesus denied being the greater God.

Passages like this have been interpreted this way: Jesus is also human (incarnated) and sometimes he speaks of himself as a human.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I guess you might have misunderstood my question as I might have not phrased it very clearly - it is more so, why did people back then believe Mary when she said Jesus was miraculously born, not why do Christians right now believe it, as the latter would be more fitting of your analogy.

Well to be fair, we don’t if she would the one who spread the story.

 

[metis]

LOL... I'm going to learn you into right thinking

But I hear you're a "closet leftist".

 

[Kenny]

But I hear you're a "closet leftist".

CLOSET:
A small private chamber,

What are you doing to me Metis?

 

[metis]

CLOSET:
A small private chamber,

What are you doing to me Metis?

Do you mind if the walls close in so as to make you feel more cozy?

 

[BrightShadow]

Yes.


He just repeats he is the divine agent, speaking and working on behalf of Father (because only he was with him before the creation of the world). Everything in G-John is variations on a theme from John 1:1-18.

If you do some research you will see that the actual meaning of [John 1:1-18] got corrupted in the translation. In my opinion the translation was done in a deceiving fashion where Jesus is addressed as "the God". In the verses [John 1:1-18] the word that is used for Jesus in the original text (Greek ) is not the same word used for God the father. A different word is used that should imply just "a god" or a godly person and NOT "the God".

Devil is called "the god" of this world in the verse [2 Corinthians 4:4] Does that mean Devil is also "the God". The word used for Devil in the verse [2 Corinthians 4:4] in the original text is actually the same word used for "God the father" in other verses.
Same thing happened in [Exodus 7:1] where Moses is mentioned as god of the Pharaoh.

In my opinion - a belief system shouldn't deviate from its true teachings due to faulty translations. For such a serious change of intended meaning - one must consult or investigate the original text!

IMO The people who did the translation intentionally corrupted the meaning by infusing their personal sentiments into the translation to accommodate the trinity concept and Jesus' divinity concept.

Regardless of different interpretations - it is clear that - not even a single verse in the Bible shows that Jesus himself claimed to be God of Abrahim, Isaac Jacob or Moses. He never said - "I am God, worship me. Every verse that implies otherwise - are from the mouth of someone else. It is never a direct quote from Jesus' mouth!

So, since countless verses show he was not God - it is fair to say Bible got distorted somehow with those particular verses [John 1:1-18]

 

[PearlSeeker]

In the verses [John 1:1-18] the word that is used for Jesus in the original text (Greek ) is not the same word used for God the father. A different word is used that should imply just "a god" or a godly person and NOT "the God".

There are many nontrinitarian interpretations of John 1:1. Actually in the original Greek text the same word (Theos) is used for the Father and the Word. But the same word can mean God or a god.

Regardless of different interpretations - it is clear that - not even a single verse in the Bible shows that Jesus himself claimed to be God of Abrahim, Isaac Jacob or Moses. He never said - "I am God, worship me. Every verse that implies otherwise - are from the mouth of someone else. It is never a direct quote from Jesus' mouth!

This is how God spoke to Moses:
"Say this to the people of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." (Exodus 3:14)

Similarly Jesus (and the Jews wanted to stone him):
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:58)

 

[BrightShadow]

There are many nontrinitarian interpretations of John 1:1. Actually in the original Greek text the same word (Theos) is used for the Father and the Word. But the same word can mean God or a god.

I think you are incorrect!
If you do some research you will see that two different spellings are used for "Father" and "Word". The two different spellings clearly do not mean the same!
The Greek word "Theos (θεός)" is used in once instance and the Greek word "Theon (θεόν)" is used with "τον • (ton) in front of it - which clearly implies a weaker form or just a god or a godly person!
There is this huge online propaganda campaign out there trying to put a spin on the meanings of theses words - so I am surprised you said the same word (Theos) is used for both Father and Word!

Furthermore, "the word was with God" - implies two separate entity. One was with the other!

By the way - in one of my earlier post I already pointed out how and why Jesus could have said he was there earlier with Abraham, Moses etc. I believe we all have a history in our soul form and we all were there with God and rest of the prophets. Not just Jesus alone! God erased our memory of that existence to give us a fresh and fair attempt at redemption but God allowed Jesus to remember that existence IMO. So he spoke in that manner where it seemed like he was there in the "beginning"! A beginning that is prior to our physical form!

[Luke 5:16] & [Matthew 14:23] shows that Jesus prayed to God. It is illogical to believe that a God would go up the mountain routinely to pray to himself. Why would a God pray to himself?