Amanda Carter
New Member
What do any of you think about the Roman Catholic sacrament of Marriage? Should couples cohabitate before marriage? What is your stance on the matter?
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Cohabitation Debate
- Thread starter Amanda Carter
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- cohabitation marriage
Orbit
I'm a planet
Factoid: cohabiting couples have a higher divorce rate if they go on to marry each other, but NOT if they can reach the 7 year mark--then their divorce rate is the same as the American average.
I think, on the average, it causes more harm than good--spiritually and emotionally.
@Orbit , I believe has it correct. The problem is that so many never reach the 7 year mark and take the relationship baggage to the next relationship (as I understand it)
Yes, I think couples *should* live together (and be sexual) before marriage.
The sacraments are instituted with the continuation of Christ's work in mind. The Roman Catholic sacrament of marriage is I think for the purpose of having children who know what it means to be Roman Catholic. Consider the plagues (such as the Black death) which ravaged Europe. That could happen again, and then what if the Roman Catholics did not have enough successful marriages? Then Europe may have lost its Roman Catholics.
Co-habitation before marriage does not favor the creation of Roman Catholic children. It is a secular union. Its not unspiritual and not evil, but its not Roman Catholic. Marriage is not always for everyone. Some people should consider not getting married. I suppose that in Roman Catholic tradition those people are supposed to join monasteries, but I am not sure. Is that the case for Roman Catholics?
The definition of a sacrament by newadvent.org: "Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification" which I suppose means that they further the work of Christ.
So the question is do I feel the the Roman Catholic Church ought to continue its work. That is none of my business, since I am not Roman Catholic. In fact if I get married, it doesn't count as a Roman Catholic marriage.
Cohabitation is useful.
Discover things before committing to a life together.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You never really actually fully know someone until you live with them.
Better to find out how things will work before you make such a commitment and it becomes difficult and expensive to realize you made a mistake and want out of it.
Better to find out how things will work before you make such a commitment and it becomes difficult and expensive to realize you made a mistake and want out of it.
As others have noted already, Catholic 'matrimony' is a sacrament - "an efficacious sign of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1131). The sacraments are necessary for salvation, although not every sacrament is necessary for every individual.
In this manner, holy matrimony is equivalent to Baptism and the Eucharist - a sacred rite that causes grace and whereby Christ is really present.
If I may quote the church father St. Augustine of Hippo:
There are only seven sacraments and they represent the essence of the life of the Church. For this reason, a Catholic marriage is a very sacred institution that is elevated to a degree above that of mere 'secular' unions - which the canonical tradition of the church refers to as "natural marriage", consisting as it does largely of a contract. A sacramental marriage is not a contract under law. It would have the same validity and moral force if the state recognised no marital unions.
This is the rationale behind the church's doctrine that a sacramental marriage cannot, in essence, be broken - like a normal secular marriage.
It's not that we see absolutely no value in natural unions, such as cohabitation. In his 2016 apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis warned against what he called an "excessive idealization" which results in a "far too abstract and almost artificial theological ideal of marriage, far removed from the concrete situations and practical possibilities of real families". When people fail to conform with this high 'ideal', due to the pressures of modern living and societal mores among other factors, the Church had in the past clung to its 'laws' so ferociously as to turn them into "stones to throw at people's lives", according to the pontiff.
The Pope disagrees with this:
The Pope thinks it is possible to find significant "elements of love and holiness" in family situations and domestic relationships which - while clearly lacking the fullness of truth found in a sacramental, marital relationship - nevertheless represent a "step" in the right direction and can be appreciated for those elements of truth, even if we can never recognise them as 'ideal' - these include stable pre-marital relationships (co-habitation), second marriages and same-sex unions.
In this manner, holy matrimony is equivalent to Baptism and the Eucharist - a sacred rite that causes grace and whereby Christ is really present.
If I may quote the church father St. Augustine of Hippo:
This good is threefold: fidelity, offspring, sacrament.
Fidelity means that one avoids all sexual activity apart from one’s marriage [i.e. no adultery / extra-marital liaisons].
Offspring means that the child is accepted in love, is nurtured in affection, is brought up in religion.
The sacrament means that the marriage is not severed...
[Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram, ix, 7, 12 [or 9,9,2]), Corpus Scriptorum Ecciesiasticorum Latinorum (CSEL) 28: 275-276]
Fidelity means that one avoids all sexual activity apart from one’s marriage [i.e. no adultery / extra-marital liaisons].
Offspring means that the child is accepted in love, is nurtured in affection, is brought up in religion.
The sacrament means that the marriage is not severed...
[Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram, ix, 7, 12 [or 9,9,2]), Corpus Scriptorum Ecciesiasticorum Latinorum (CSEL) 28: 275-276]
For Augustine, it was chiefly “the sacrament” that distinguished the marriages of Christians from those of other people. Because of its essential goodness, marriage was a sacred reality and he analogized its permanence to the permanent character arising from baptism. [Reynolds, 293-297]
There are only seven sacraments and they represent the essence of the life of the Church. For this reason, a Catholic marriage is a very sacred institution that is elevated to a degree above that of mere 'secular' unions - which the canonical tradition of the church refers to as "natural marriage", consisting as it does largely of a contract. A sacramental marriage is not a contract under law. It would have the same validity and moral force if the state recognised no marital unions.
This is the rationale behind the church's doctrine that a sacramental marriage cannot, in essence, be broken - like a normal secular marriage.
It's not that we see absolutely no value in natural unions, such as cohabitation. In his 2016 apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis warned against what he called an "excessive idealization" which results in a "far too abstract and almost artificial theological ideal of marriage, far removed from the concrete situations and practical possibilities of real families". When people fail to conform with this high 'ideal', due to the pressures of modern living and societal mores among other factors, the Church had in the past clung to its 'laws' so ferociously as to turn them into "stones to throw at people's lives", according to the pontiff.
The Pope disagrees with this:
"In such situations, many people, knowing and accepting the possibility of living ‘as brothers and sisters’ which the Church offers them, point out that if certain expressions of intimacy [i.e., sexual intercourse] are lacking ‘it often happens that faithfulness is endangered and the good of the children suffers’ ( Gaudium et spes, 51).”
"Hence it can no longer simply be said that all those in any 'irregular' situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding 'its inherent values', or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin. (paragraph 301)
...it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God's grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end. (paragraph 305)...
A pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in 'irregular' situations, as if they were stones to throw at people's lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings, 'sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families'". (paragraph 305)...
When a couple in an irregular union attains a noteworthy stability through a public bond – and is characterized by deep affection, responsibility towards the children and the ability to overcome trials – this can be seen as an opportunity
...it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God's grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end. (paragraph 305)...
A pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in 'irregular' situations, as if they were stones to throw at people's lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings, 'sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families'". (paragraph 305)...
When a couple in an irregular union attains a noteworthy stability through a public bond – and is characterized by deep affection, responsibility towards the children and the ability to overcome trials – this can be seen as an opportunity
The Pope thinks it is possible to find significant "elements of love and holiness" in family situations and domestic relationships which - while clearly lacking the fullness of truth found in a sacramental, marital relationship - nevertheless represent a "step" in the right direction and can be appreciated for those elements of truth, even if we can never recognise them as 'ideal' - these include stable pre-marital relationships (co-habitation), second marriages and same-sex unions.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Where do those stats come from?
I'm not aware of the specific rules for Catholic marriage other than it being monogamous and between a man and a woman. The risk with cohabitation and/or sexual intercourse before marriage is the physical side of the relationship can develop very quickly and make it difficult for the couple to really get to know each others character. The idea that sexual intimacy assists in understanding another person is fraught.
The Baha'i view on marriage is that it should be monogamous, between a man and a woman, and the couple should not have sexual intercourse or cohabit before marriage. The couple should become thoroughly acquainted with the character of the one they are considering marrying and should have consent of parents on both sides before proceeding.
arthra
Baha'i
My own belief is that cohabiting before "marriage" and/or extra marital affairs have a negative effect on society and family structure... I worked for some years as a social worker and there were so many cases of "broken families" where there were children from various liaisons. The adults offer few standards of behavior for the children as they mature.
Marriage is good.
It does sadden me how Catholic Church doesn't fully acknowledge non-Catholic marriages (speaking of legally married heterosexual couples here, so nothing against Catholic values).
Cohabbitation is a horrible and unethical idea. A future spouse is not a shoe for you to "try on" in some trial run.
That being said, I do readily acknowledge that other people regularly do this. I acknowledge that is their choice and their consequences.