Comet's questions about UUism

[Green Gaia]

Forked from: Frequently Asked Questions about UUism

That was some good info, thanks. I do have a question in regards to services though:

How are the readings from holy books taken by those that do not believe in God? When reading from the Bible or whatever other holy book, are things edited to speak more the UU language of things? Are those passages avoided all together? How often, if at all, does Jesus come into play at these services?

(sorry, guess I had more than one question)

 

[Green Gaia]

How are the readings from holy books taken by those that do not believe in God?

Pretty much the same way it is taken by UUs who do believe in God. Because even those who do believe in God, most do not believe holy books to be from God, but inspired writings of humans. We all, theists and non-theists alike, can see the beauty and wisdom in a story or statement that speaks to us no matter what it's origins.

When reading from the Bible or whatever other holy book, are things edited to speak more the UU language of things?

Edited? No, not really. But definitely intrepretated prehaps differently to reflect our values and how we see the world.

For example, from the New Testament of the Christian Bible, James 2:14-18:

14Dear brothers and sisters, what's the use of saying you have faith if you don't prove it by your actions? That kind of faith can't save anyone. 15Suppose you see a brother or sister who needs food or clothing, 16and you say, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well"--but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. 18Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." I say, "I can't see your faith if you don't have good deeds, but I will show you my faith through my good deeds."

​

We (or at least I do) take this passage as inspiration of the importance of showing our faith through the social action projects at UUs are involved with. It is not enough for me to just say I'm a UU, I have to act on it.

Are those passages avoided all together?

No, we call a spade a spade. If there is something we don't agree with or don't find truth or wisdom in, we say so and cast it aside.

How often, if at all, does Jesus come into play at these services?

Depends really on who is giving the service and the topic. We do take inspiration from Jesus' life and teachings, although we believe he was just a man, not a God. It is not unusual to hear Jesus, Ghandi, Black Elk, the Buddha and Bertrand Russell all quoted in the same service.

I hope I answered your questions. You may get somewhat different answers from another UU, so I encourage them to add their thoughts as well. If you have anymore questions, please feel free to ask!

 

[Comet]

Thanks for starting this Maize. I had a cat emergency last night and was just now able to get on again.

What I am really curious about is (well lots I guess)?

Do you find a great mix in your congregation of theists/agnostics/atheists? How do the people of your congregation react durring a service when things they do not believe come up? I can only imagine it is better than speaking "Why I Am Not A Christian" by B.R. at a church service or preaching the words of Jesus at an atheist convention.

No, we call a spade a spade. If there is something we don't agree with or don't find truth or wisdom in, we say so and cast it aside.

Do you find that with this being taken, but not the same for any two, that there is any hostilities amoung people in your congregation. Like the "coffee time" you spoke of that most congregations seem to have. Do members get into "heated" discussions about things like God, or is everybody pretty much mellow with all things?

It is just that I see so many people who disagree on the concept of God get into "heated" discussions everywhere it comes up. I am just curious as to how the UU congregations get around not having this happen with a wide variety of people attending. If that makes sence....

 

[Green Gaia]

Do you find a great mix in your congregation of theists/agnostics/atheists?

I really don't know every person in my congregation feelings on God, but I do know that all 3 three philosophies and more exist in my congregation.

How do the people of your congregation react durring a service when things they do not believe come up?

Well, if they feel strongly about it, they will say something to either the minister or someone else after the service. This is encouraged actually, we support a free exchange of ideas.

Do you find that with this being taken, but not the same for any two, that there is any hostilities amoung people in your congregation. Like the "coffee time" you spoke of that most congregations seem to have. Do members get into "heated" discussions about things like God, or is everybody pretty much mellow with all things?
It is just that I see so many people who disagree on the concept of God get into "heated" discussions everywhere it comes up. I am just curious as to how the UU congregations get around not having this happen with a wide variety of people attending. If that makes sence....

I think I can answer these two questions together: yes sometimes things can get heated, we are human with human emotions and love to debate. That said, at my congregation budget meetings seem to be more heated than any theological debate that I've witnessed. And no, I've never seen or experienced in hostilities. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, we are after all, human.

I think the point you're missing in understanding how different beliefs can peacefully co-exist in one congregation is that at the core of our principles is the fundamental belief in individual freedom of belief. We encourage people to develop their own personal philosophy of life. We are all individuals so we know we're not going to agree with everyone else on everything, this is just accepted.

 

[Comet]

I see what you are saying:

principles is the fundamental belief in individual freedom of belief

Yet, I find it very interesting:

Well, if they feel strongly about it, they will say something to either the minister or someone else after the service. This is encouraged actually, we support a free exchange of ideas

How is it that the one giving the service comes to a conclusion on what to speak of?
Do you find that it brings the theists and atheists "closer" together or that it just gives a common ground to stand on without going into the differences?
Also, do you consider it "worship" to attend a service?


I guess I am looking more for people who attend to relate their expiriences with how some fundamental beliefs can seem to transend and bring together people of a very different religious perspective. How they have seen it work in UU? Have you seen the "God" issue an issue in the UU congregations?

(sorry, I really find this fascinating)

 

[Green Gaia]

How is it that the one giving the service comes to a conclusion on what to speak of?

Through experience and study, I would say. Although I'm not sure I understand your question.

Do you find that it brings the theists and atheists "closer" together or that it just gives a common ground to stand on without going into the differences?

Again, I'm not sure what you're asking, sorry.

Also, do you consider it "worship" to attend a service?

My congregation calls it a worship service, other congregtions will use different terms. People are feel to associate that with what is comfortable for them.

I guess I am looking more for people who attend to relate their expiriences with how some fundamental beliefs can seem to transend and bring together people of a very different religious perspective. How they have seen it work in UU? Have you seen the "God" issue an issue in the UU congregations?

Yes, it is an issue with the UU movement as a whole. (Perhaps not in each individual congregation though). Some want to move back to a more spiritual movement and include more "God talk" and others are against this. It's actually not a new issue within UU, IIRC.

 

[Comet]

Through experience and study, I would say. Although I'm not sure I understand your question

It just seems it would be hard to speak of anything in a "worship" context that wouldn't offend somebody in a congregation.

Again, I'm not sure what you're asking, sorry.

If people who believe in God and those who don't come together to worship, what are they worshiping? (If that makes a bit more sense) Are you just paying tribute to the fundamental beliefs you mentioned in a non-religious way? I guess it may be better served to ask an Atheist UU member that question......

My congregation calls it a worship service, other congregtions will use different terms. People are feel to associate that with what is comfortable for them.

Yes, it is an issue with the UU movement as a whole. (Perhaps not in each individual congregation though). Some want to move back to a more spiritual movement and include more "God talk" and others are against this. It's actually not a new issue within UU, IIRC

Do you fear or foresee a break up in the UU movement? Something similar like what has happened to Christianity and all its denominations? What do you think holds UU together so well despite the differences within it?

 

[BrandonE]

Comet,

I'm pretty new to UU, but find it a welcoming place for all sorts of views. I don't see a lot of conflict or discomfort among any group in our congregation. Everyone there has the mindset that we're all there specifically to be accepting of each other, so if someone says something you don't believe, you just let it go usually. It's not as if they've said it with the intent to push it down your throat. Usually they are just sharing.

As far as what to talk about at a given sermon, that varies widely. We only have a part-time minister at my church, so a committe actually decides not only who's speaking, but the topic about half the time. This doesn't mean that we necessarily tell the speakers what to say, but ask them to speak knowing ahead of time what they're likely to talk about. If you've got time, our webmasters post transcripts of past sermons on my church's website: http://www.uusavannah.org/sermons.htm

I know I didn't answer any of your questions specifically, but hopefully this is helpful.

Peace,
Brandon

 

[Green Gaia]

It just seems it would be hard to speak of anything in a "worship" context that wouldn't offend somebody in a congregation.

I think just mere disagreement is more common than someone being offended.

If people who believe in God and those who don't come together to worship, what are they worshiping? (If that makes a bit more sense) Are you just paying tribute to the fundamental beliefs you mentioned in a non-religious way?

But it is religious to us (again, I can only speak for myself and to some extent my congregation). But most (if not all) UUs do not believe in a God that demands to be worshipped as you may find in other religions. So even those UUs who do believe in God do not "worship" in that way. But for those of us coming from Christian background are familiar with that word "worship" and what you do on Sunday mornings. So for me worship is not bowing down and glorifying a deity, but a time for reflection and spiritual growth.

I guess it may be better served to ask an Atheist UU member that question......

That would be Robtex.

Do you fear or foresee a break up in the UU movement? Something similar like what has happened to Christianity and all its denominations?

No, not at all. We see change as constant and on-going and there will always be growing pains with change, but we will be stronger for it in the end, I believe.

What do you think holds UU together so well despite the differences within it?

Our Priniciples and Purposes:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:

• Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
• Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
• Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
• Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
• Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
• Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

Grateful for the religious pluralism which enriches and ennobles our faith, we are inspired to deepen our understanding and expand our vision. As free congregations we enter into this covenant, promising to one another our mutual trust and support.

The Purposes of the Unitarian Universalist Association
The Unitarian Universalist Association shall devote its resources to and exercise its corporate powers for religious, educational and humanitarian purposes. The primary purpose of the Association is to serve the needs of its member congregations, organize new congregations, extend and strengthen Unitarian Universalist institutions and implement its principles.

The Association declares and affirms its special responsibility, and that of its member societies and organizations, to promote the full participation of persons in all of its and their activities and in the full range of human endeavor without regard to race, color, sex, disability, affectional or sexual orientation, age, or national origin and without requiring adherence to any particular interpretation of religion or to any particular religious belief or creed.

Nothing herein shall be deemed to infringe upon the individual freedom of belief which is inherent in the Universalist and Unitarian heritages or to conflict with any statement of purpose, covenant, or bond of union used by any society unless such is used as a creedal test.

 

[Comet]

Thank you both for all your answers. I do appreciate it.