Common Turn Offs in discussing your religion or beliefs

[Laika]

I wanted to ask people what are the "turn-offs" when you are discussing your religion or beliefs with someone. i.e. What are the things that make you think it is not worth discussing it with this person?

Alot of discussions centre of criticising religion and I'm wondering what is the "right" way to go about it. By the "right" way I mean that people are able to talk to each other without it ending either in a brawl or with one side simply refusing to participate. Very often, people attack the religion whilst failing to recognise that can also be a personal attack on its adherents. it is admittedly a hard distinction to draw at times so takes alot of skill and patience to pull off. that is also true with non-religious postions, such as atheism and agnosticism, as well.

So I'm wondering what are the ways to make discussion more civil, informative and respectful. This is partly for myself, but I hope a few others may take it into consideration in future debates. I put this thread in comparative religion so that people should feel as free as possible to express their views about posting habits (but not individual posters) they like or dislike without necessarily feeling inhibited by expecting a critical response. All your input is very much appreciated, so thanks in advance.

 

[Sees]

Best I can think of...when it resembles "let's discuss your religion according to the straw-man or juvenile version I perceive/have heard of/was spoon-fed..." it is a turn-off. Could still turn out fruitful, informative, etc. just not as likely.

 

[Terese]

When one is not humble in their beliefs.

 

[Erebus]

There are a few things that immediately make me stop listening:

• Using criticisms of Abrahamic Monotheism against me - This is a common one among newer members who think they've come across an all-encompassing criticism of theism. They're new, they have an excuse. Established members don't.
• Calling me stupid, naive or delusional - If your arguments are so weak, you have to resort to name-calling, I'm not going to indulge you.
• Ignoring an entire post in order to pick on a trivial flaw - I've seen entire posts of mine missing from a quote while somebody focuses on a flawed analogy, incorrect name or something equally minor. If you do this, I have to conclude your only interest is in "winning" a debate. That's not what I'm here for.
• Basing your entire argument on a dictionary definition - Bonus points if it's only one of several dictionary definitions. Honestly, dictionaries have their place, but they give an incomplete view on a word. If your entire argument hinges on this, you don't have an argument.
• Boasting about your education - Anybody can claim to have any number of qualifications on the internet. Here's the thing though, it's painfully obvious when somebody's lying about their education. A good way of giving yourself away would be to back up your argument by linking wikipedia, your own blog or twitter.
• Inability to recognise an impasse - Sometimes, two people just aren't going to agree on something. They've looked at the same evidence, shared similar experiences and understood the counter-points, but they still don't agree. At that stage, it's better to just politely leave the conversation be. When somebody insists on dragging a debate/discussion well beyond the point of usefulness, I'm much less inclined to speak with them in the future.

This was a good idea for a thread. I'll be keeping an eye on it to see if there's anything I need to check myself on.

 

[Revoltingest]

The worst is when some sanctimonious ****head tells me what I believe, & still argues when I explain otherwise.
I can understand that my actual beliefs can ruin a desired personal attack, but tis better to open one's ears before one's mouth.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The biggest problems for me are:

• When people can't suspend their disbelief for the sake of a conversation.
• When people come into a conversation with the pre-conceived notion that their religion and/or view of deity is the only correct one.
• When people presume that quotes from their respective holy book should be authoritative or convincing for people not of their faith.

 

[Mindmaster]

@Erebus - I've had the dictionary game used on me as well. I feel your pain.

As for turn offs :

1) People immediately assuming others have something to do with a figure in the mythology of their religion. I view Satan as a much bigger concept than what they would understand. I'd basically have to read them a course in Babylonian, Persian, and Egyptian religious lore to get to the crux of the matter. People really don't stop to think about what you actually believe, but rather tend to read into what you are saying what they think. This tendency can probably be reduced if someone was actively working toward changing these perceptions. Most of the mainstream religions demonize others, so this has to be pretty specifically addressed.

2) Hubris kills the forum. People think they are smarter than they are which means they also decide everyone else is stupider than themselves. This lack of humility largely prohibits any real dialogue. It should be in the rules, and warned against at least -- it is just a passive-aggressive way to launch an ad hominem attack. It just makes everything an us vs them debacle, and no one is receiving input. There are literally people here who are one true god types and they need correction, but there are also atheists who have no respect for others beliefs -- nevermind that most people, statistically, are not atheists. Your ideas may be correct, but if you use them like a hammer no one cares.

3) Intolerance. SOME Christians won't talk to the Satanists, Pagans, or anyone else not on their team. Jews, and Muslims... Ditto... Atheists will only normally talk to anyone of these if they see that they can prod at the poster. Again, this needs to be discouraged directly. If the mission is about promoting openness then we need people to feel welcome to be themselves without fear of being tormented. All it really is, is bullying... plain and simple!

If this can be addressed, then this forum can become a better place. These are probably the major issues in my eye... I'll probably think of others later lol

 

[Laika]

Your replies have been refreshingly productive so far, given how often debates just stall. alot of good suggestions and observations. Keep the replies coming. it makes good reading.

 

[Thief]

most have heard my rendition....repeatedly....

I hold to my stance as the line of thought ran into the corner....with no way out.
some of my beliefs I consider self explanatory and need not be explained to great length.

but....

among this congregation of religious curiosities there are several who do little more than make denial
they lean to argumentative ploy rather than rebuttal.

I have no count the number of times I have needed to repeat....
belief....faith...requires no proving

that's why it's called faith.

and the simple straightforward statements I make don't need to be proven.
if there is a rebuttal of naysaying......I have not yet heard of it.

 

[Maponos]

When someone constantly questions what I believe in while they brush away any criticism I might have of their beliefs.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention.

• When posters are caught in an echo chamber, ignoring arguments & evidence supplied that counters their viewpoints;
• When they engage in egregiously obvious attempts at historical revisionism to make their beliefs look better;
• When they shift the goal posts to avoid their original argument being defeated;
• When the No True Scotsman fallacy is deployed.

 

[Quetzal]

Any sort of insult. Instant tune out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My turn offs?

1. When any individual cannot step out of their own worldview to see into another.

I understand it is hard; but, good and productive discussion is better when there is a common foundation. If X believer feels the other person is going to hell, that doesnt mean you cant see how Y see things as a pagan, satanist, or even jewish for that matter.

2. When anyone belittles another persons faith

I see it a lot. Catholicism is one of the biggest ones belittled by both protestant christians and many non believers. The only people, some, who respect that are many pagans, Bahai, and Hindu (based on what I see on RF)

Step out of your shoes. Make the jump! Dont worrt, you dont have to stay in the shoes if they arent your size.

3. Using biblical (and some people quranic) quotes to proove their points true.

In scriptural debates, thats expected. If talking specifically about the Bible and Quran, that makes sense. But for regular debates? Quters must understand their scripture isnt a dictionary. It doesnt offer a common foundation that both parties agree and thus base their debate on. It doesnt mean anymore than my showing them the Fenderal Census records in 1930 to proove my ancestor, say Carol, exists. What does that mean to the other party?

4?,

Very often, people attack the religion [while] failing to recognise that can also be a personal attack on its adherents.

This is another big one. "I hate the church rituals. They ar pagan. They dont bring one to christ" You know what you just said to that Catholic: Your Church is s. To a Catholic that may translate his relationship with Christ.

Chose your words appropriately. Sorry up front. This is a big pet peeve. I try to ignore it. Doesnt always work.

When people presume that quotes from their respective holy book should be authoritative or convincing for people not of their faith.

Good one. Readers...same as above. So agree.

Intolerance. SOME Christians won't talk to the Satanists, Pagans, or anyone else not on their team. Jews, and Muslims... Ditto... Atheists will only normally talk to anyone of these if they see that they can prod at the poster. Again, this needs to be discouraged directly. If the mission is about promoting openness then we need people to feel welcome to be themselves without fear of being tormented. All it really is, is bullying... plain and simple!

Whih is sad. I think we only have what 10 posters on RF when their religion is questioned. Come on now. We wont bite.

5. Not everyone is christian!

Stop shaping your debates around christian morals all the time. For example, "for those who believe in god only....."

I believe in god (god isblife; intuition; spirits)
Many Hindu believe in god
Pagans believe in god (s...)

We feel so left out.

 

[crossfire]

Clinging to preconceived prejudices/strawmen based on ignorance and the militant assertion of false dilemma fallacies.

 

[Jainarayan]

Biggest turn-offs:

• "You're doing it wrong" (Hail Your Holiness Ásapope) .
• "There's nothing in the Lore about that" (we don't know how much Lore is missing, except that it's suspected to be a lot).
• "There's plenty of historical evidence" (oh really, we know everything there is to know about the past?).
• "That's not what the 'arch-Heathens' did" (what, you were there?).

The things these refer to are really not of cosmic importance, except to some people. I've learned to walk away from these arguments.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Lots of really good things to keep in mind here. Insults is definitely an instant turn-off.
Also, not respecting boundaries. There might be issues people don't want to discuss because they either feel the issue is too personal or too sensitive to get a worthwhile discussion from.
Maybe a bit related to understanding when you've reached an impasse. Someone doesn't want to elaborate further because they think it won't be productive any more.
The goal should be to exchange ideas. Not to 'win.'

 

[Revoltingest]

The motivation for insults is easy to understand.
They get angry, & they lash out.
But the accusation of lying is strange.
Why would any of us have reason to lie about our beliefs & opinions?
And there's no way another poster could know if we were.
It's an accusation which bespeaks not just abuse, but hubris.

So, to any posters prone to making this accusation.....
Bear in mind that such behavior reflects poorly upon you.

 

[Kori]

To be honest I get a lot of amusement "debating" a Christian because over here very few people know about the Norse Religion. In fact all the encounters I have had, off the internet, with Christians about my Religion they have been confused or curious, sometimes both.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The motivation for insults is easy to understand.
They get angry, & they lash out.
But the accusation of lying is strange.
Why would any of us have reason to lie about our beliefs & opinions?

A person's beliefs might fly in the face of fact, or said person might need to misrepresent or distort the claims of others in order to make their beliefs seem correct.

And there's no way another poster could know if we were.
It's an accusation which bespeaks not just abuse, but hubris.

Unless you've shown said person time and time again examples of events that actively contradict their beliefs (or claims related to such) or show them to be false and they continue to expound as if you'd never shown them anything.

So, to any posters prone to making this accusation.....
Bear in mind that such behavior reflects poorly upon you.

Calling a duck a 'duck' isn't an example of bad behaviour. Sometimes 'liar' is as good a word as any to describe someone's dishonesty.

 

[Kori]

Found this pic that is funny and accurate.