Common virtues, morals and humanity

[TransmutingSoul]

I see that is maybe a path we can make the world a better place.

How about it. Lets share what we can do to build the world the next generations would be proud to live in.

So How about it? Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Hate to rain on the parade, but there's a lot of strong fear and prejudice out there. Not sure what we
cool folks can do about it.

 

[AlexanderG]

Unfortunately, stoking fear, hatred, and divisiveness is the easiest way for politicians to gain money, support, and power. It's the easiest way for news media to increase ratings. It's the easiest way for incurious, insecure people to feel like their own lives are special or meaningful.

I'm not sure how to change this, except for more people to repudiate these strategies instead of rewarding them. More people living in cities will expose them to different cultures and beliefs and humanize the "other." Simple time may heal the problem, as we've seen the arc of moral progress improve over past generations throughout history. Based on polling, there is a large gap between the old and young on all sorts of metrics of compassion and empathy toward their perceived out-groups. Generational replacement will take care of a lot of it. I think the young people are alright.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hate to rain on the parade, but there's a lot of strong fear and prejudice out there. Not sure what we
cool folks can do about it.

Maybe by example we can quell the strong fear and prejudices?

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Maybe by example we can quell the strong fear and prejudices?

Regards Tony

All we can do is follow an ethical path. My concern is more and more folks don't recognize or value ethics, so they are not moved by good examples.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Unfortunately, stoking fear, hatred, and divisiveness is the easiest way for politicians to gain money, support, and power. It's the easiest way for news media to increase ratings. It's the easiest way for incurious, insecure people to feel like their own lives are special or meaningful.

I'm not sure how to change this, except for more people to repudiate these strategies instead of rewarding them. More people living in cities will expose them to different cultures and beliefs and humanize the "other." Simple time may heal the problem, as we've seen the arc of moral progress improve over past generations throughout history. Based on polling, there is a large gap between the old and young on all sorts of metrics of compassion and empathy toward their perceived out-groups. Generational replacement will take care of a lot of it. I think the young people are alright.

Then maybe we need to show our elected members that we what honesty, trustworthiness and truthfulness.

Maybe we need to show them that a want for power and wealth are not what the people need.

We need groups supporting a way of life in communities across the globe. I see many already do this, free of predudices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All we can do is follow an ethical path. My concern is more and more folks don't recognize or value ethics, so they are not moved by good examples.

People can and do change, they just need to see that morals and principals do not have to be compromised.

I know of a wonderful story where for 20 years one person named Abdul'baha showed nothing but kindness to another person, while for 20 years that person showed nothing but hate, contempt and anger.

Then overnight that changed and that person begged for forgiveness. That is the example we can emulate.

Regards Tony

 

[sun rise]

A stone dropped into a lake creates ripples that spread. Acts of loving kindness spread the same way.

Of course there are those who are not moved, but a few will be and that few will become more and finally many. Of course some of the following are imperfect but that these exist is part of the "ripples" spreading. And I don't want to minimize the negative forces pulling in the opposite direction.

I see it happening out of sight of most. For example I never heard "pay it forward" when I was growing up and in my early adult life. Now I hear it in all kinds of places.

There was no outlets reporting on and celebrating positive acts. Now I have a number of them bookmarked. Some of the stories are truly inspiring such as a boy who had a gift from the "Make a Wish Foundation" and used his wish to feed the hungry.

"B (public benefit) corporations are new perhaps starting in 2010. The replace the typical corporate model of profit over all with a model that a corporation should produce a public benefit as well.

I could probably come up with more examples but these illustrate some of what I've observed.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"B (public benefit) corporations are new perhaps starting in 2010. The replace the typical corporate model of profit over all with a model that a corporation should produce a public benefit as well.

I see business change will happen. Workers will become shareholders and will also be able to share in a percentage of the profit.

Regards Tony

 

[Spirit of Light]

I see that is maybe a path we can make the world a better place.

How about it. Lets share what we can do to build the world the next generations would be proud to live in.

So How about it? Regards Tony

View attachment 58004

I believe morality and virtue are the most important aspects of a good human being. So in it self one does not have to be a religious person to have good morality or virtue.

And I am not judging who has the good or less good morality and virtue it will show in the person without someone pointing it out.

 

[RestlessSoul]

A stone dropped into a lake creates ripples that spread. Acts of loving kindness spread the same way.

Of course there are those who are not moved, but a few will be and that few will become more and finally many. Of course some of the following are imperfect but that these exist is part of the "ripples" spreading. And I don't want to minimize the negative forces pulling in the opposite direction.

I see it happening out of sight of most. For example I never heard "pay it forward" when I was growing up and in my early adult life. Now I hear it in all kinds of places.

There was no outlets reporting on and celebrating positive acts. Now I have a number of them bookmarked. Some of the stories are truly inspiring such as a boy who had a gift from the "Make a Wish Foundation" and used his wish to feed the hungry.

"B (public benefit) corporations are new perhaps starting in 2010. The replace the typical corporate model of profit over all with a model that a corporation should produce a public benefit as well.

I could probably come up with more examples but these illustrate some of what I've observed.

Right. There's a million acts of kindness, however small they may be, which go unreported every day. And they all make a difference.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Be the example of what you want you wish your world to be.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I get the sentiment, I really do. But I don't think it can happen with only "feel good" emotions and motives in play. Employing only the "feel good" bits of interaction opens us up to being taken advantage of, as sad as that ultimately is. So, you "love" your fellow, and show them only love, and they pretend to reciprocate, but they are secretly conspiring to take something from you that they want for themselves. Sure, you can forgive them, and just keep forgiving them, but if they truly don't care about your camaraderie, then they may just keep taking advantage, and thinking it only too easy, because they know you aren't going to do anything about it.

Just like a child, who the parents let walk all over them. Perhaps each time the child does something they don't approve of, they attempt to respond with only love. Well... the child learns that the relationship with the parent DOESN'T CHANGE - it doesn't degrade, they have no consequences, etc. and on top of that - they got what they wanted! That's a recipe for disaster.

There simply has to be the reprimands, the shame, the ostracization - these are the things that establish the boundaries of what is deemed acceptable in human-to-human relations. And yes, those things are not going to be perceived as "feel good" - nor as "niceties" - nor as "peaceful" in a lot of instances. It is unfortunate - but I just don't see the "feel good" stuff working as a sole response to the world.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I get the sentiment, I really do. But I don't think it can happen with only "feel good" emotions and motives in play. Employing only the "feel good" bits of interaction opens us up to being taken advantage of, as sad as that ultimately is. So, you "love" your fellow, and show them only love, and they pretend to reciprocate, but they are secretly conspiring to take something from you that they want for themselves. Sure, you can forgive them, and just keep forgiving them, but if they truly don't care about your camaraderie, then they may just keep taking advantage, and thinking it only too easy, because they know you aren't going to do anything about it.

Just like a child, who the parents let walk all over them. Perhaps each time the child does something they don't approve of, they attempt to respond with only love. Well... the child learns that the relationship with the parent DOESN'T CHANGE - it doesn't degrade, they have no consequences, etc. and on top of that - they got what they wanted! That's a recipe for disaster.

There simply has to be the reprimands, the shame, the ostracization - these are the things that establish the boundaries of what is deemed acceptable in human-to-human relations. And yes, those things are not going to be perceived as "feel good" - nor as "niceties" - nor as "peaceful" in a lot of instances. It is unfortunate - but I just don't see the "feel good" stuff working as a sole response to the world.

Yeah, there are other behavioural hypotheses than yours. There is a whole field in a subset of social and psychological science about that.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yeah, there are other behavioural hypotheses than yours. There is a whole field in a subset of social and psychological science about that.

And? What are you getting at? Are we simply not allowed to share our opinions on this forum without "The Objectivity Police" showing up in the form of @mikkel_the_dane telling us that everything we say is incorrect at best?

What else have you got to tell me Mikkel? What's on your mind? Still butt-hurt at the fact that I insulted you the other day? Is that what this is about? Be careful there... don't want to bring "emotions" into it? Right? Isn't that what you're always hinting at is a "bad" thing? With goofy little statements like "It's okay to have emotions... everyone has them."? You're the emotional one, Mikkel. For sure. You keep happening to catch my posts, replying to everything I say with something disparaging, as if you are going to have any effect on me whatsoever. I already think your opinions and ideas patently ridiculous... there is extremely little reason for me to take you seriously, and that pool of reasons has just been getting smaller with every post you address to me. So keep it up, Mikkel. I get what you are trying to do... even as you try to mask it in normal language and neutral/objective replies. Bring it on, bud. Bring it on.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And? What are you getting at? Are we simply not allowed to share our opinions on this forum without "The Objectivity Police" showing up in the form of @mikkel_the_dane telling us that everything we say is incorrect at best?

What else have you got to tell me Mikkel? What's on your mind? Still butt-hurt at the fact that I insulted you the other day? Is that what this is about? Be careful there... don't want to bring "emotions" into it? Right? Isn't that what you're always hinting at is a "bad" thing? With goofy little statements like "It's okay to have emotions... everyone has them."? You're the emotional one, Mikkel. For sure. You keep happening to catch my posts, replying to everything I say with something disparaging, as if you are going to have any effect on me whatsoever. I already think your opinions and ideas patently ridiculous... there is extremely little reason for me to take you seriously, and that pool of reasons has just been getting smaller with every post you address to me. So keep it up, Mikkel. I get what you are trying to do... even as you try to mask it in normal language and neutral/objective replies. Bring it on, bud. Bring it on.

Thank you for your answer. Now I forget that we are in discussion, so I deleted my first answer.

Well, I am of a different opinion than you.

 

[LukeS]

I've tried to look for a common factor from a scientific perspective. My conclusions...

We all have a degree of "rational attraction to Being" (or, to the planet, to ecosystems, to the social environment etc). By which we maintain personal and social existence according to our values and views. Its rational because we use some appropriate reasoning e.g. what to believe about the world, about what to eat, or how much change to expect in the grocers and so on.... which beliefs and actions keep us linked to the universe.

This attraction to Being functions by means of "low entropy rules" which means generally that moral rules lessen entropy (disease, death, disorder etc.) and help create complexity, order and organisation (houses, meals, families etc.).

And the lower the entropy of a group or person the higher state we'll be - e.g. the ruling party or winning individual tends to be more healthy, organised, and technologically advanced etc. than the others.

Also we have dominion or control over creation or beings precisely because truth itself is a comparatively low entropy phenomenon - our beliefs are not random, but have a kind of symmetry with reality (i.e. mapping, correspondence) which is not a random or disorderly relationship.


This works, because the contents of mind correspond to the contents of reality:

mind  MAPS world
000           000
010   <--->   010
000           000