Comparison between the most religious country vs. the least religious country in the world

[Shadow Wolf]

Picking a sample from either extreme end of the spectrum will inevitably give an inaccurate image. There are countries in which the majority of people are believers that have more religious freedom than countries in which a relatively high percentage of people are non-religious (e.g., the US or England compared to China or North Korea).

If you want to go down that road, maybe it'd be fairer to compare non-religious democracies to religious ones, as opposed to picking poor examples of religious countries and comparing them to the best examples of non-religious countries (and vice versa).

You mean looking at the extremes doesn't give a good view of the overall data?

 

[FearGod]

You are unfortunately right about your stats that violence against women has increased in Sweden but compared to many countries it is still pretty good. All countries have this problem. I have read many articles about this and the major factor to the increase is violence with immigrants from Iraq, Afhganistan and Somalia. There have been four "honor" killings that has been written a lot about in the papers the last few years The most famous one included an Iraqi girl who wanted to live like a Swedish girl but the family was totally against it...It escalated and it ended up in murder. The father is now in prison for the rest of his life. The other famous case was an Afghan woman who had similar problems as the Iraqi girl and she also ended up dead which was terrible. The father in this case and the girls uncle also got "life in prison". The other two famous cases include two other Iraqi women...

If it is something we have a problem with in Sweden then it is integration among the immigrant population. Sweden is not perfect...I have never said that....

Please quote your references which confirm your argument that violence is caused by immigrants and that violence in Sweden is the lowest compared to other countries in the world.

i am sorry i won't believe words without any evidences.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You mean looking at the extremes doesn't give a good view of the overall data?

I think that only looking at the extremes tends to give an inaccurate representation of the data, yes. Examples could be found to confirm individual bias if only extremes are considered without taking into account the rest of the data, which may or may not confirm the image given by the extremes.

 

[F0uad]

Is it not ''stupid'' to compare countries such as Somali, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya what are still tribal countries to that of Sweden?

Maybe people didn't know but there are some poor Secular countries out there that are so in debt that they can't even pay there own civilians.

 

[YouOnlyScienceOnce]

Is it not ''stupid'' to compare countries such as Somali, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya what are still tribal countries to that of Sweden?

Maybe people didn't know but there are some poor Secular countries out there that are so in debt that they can't even pay there own civilians.

They are tribal because religion deprives them from education and such.

 

[johnsweeting]

I'm defending common sense, something you've probably never heard of, but am suggesting you seek out nonetheless.

Of all you that have responded to my post even if you have a totally different position I say thank you..debating is a good thing...even if you totally disagree.
The only post I have a problem with is Skwim's post which is not even a religious one..So even if you are religious you can agree with me on this one. I mean is anyone else on this guy's side when it comes to statistics and reporting crime.

I will recap:

India total reported crimes: 1,764,630
Sweden total reported crime: 1,234,784

These number are not an average of crimes for every 1 million people but the actual number of crimes reported. India has almost 1,25 billion people..Sweden has 9,4 million which is 133 times smaller than India....India has 133 times more population.
My main point is that India is under reporting the number of crime in their country. I mean to have 1,7 million crimes among its population of 1250 million people (1,25 Billion).

In the post Skwim goes about saying that he uses common sense that these figures are correct for India. His explanation, which I don't even understand so I will not put it here, can be seen if you go back to page 3 of this post.

Note: This is nothing against India..i have been there twice and it is a great country to visit.

My questions:

1. Do you think that it is common sense after reading this number that they are correct and that India is not under-reporting that number. I mean they would be by far, far far the country that has the least number of reported crime compared to the population in the entire world. It is not even a single country that comes close to it.

2. Do you really think that Sweden has almost 133 times more crime than India. The way I read it is that the number of reported crimes are almost the same but India has 133 times more population.

Once again, this is not a religious argument but statistical one so even the ones who are on my opposite side of religion must see the "common sense" here...or?

Skwim's statement is the strangest argument I have ever read in my life..It also states he is "agnostic" so he seems to be on my side when it comes to religion. We have weird people on the "non-religious" side as well

 

[Shadow Wolf]

These number are not an average of crimes for every 1 million people but the actual number of crimes reported. India has almost 1,25 billion people..Sweden has 9,4 million which is 133 times smaller than India....India has 133 times more population.
My main point is that India is under reporting the number of crime in their country. I mean to have 1,7 million crimes among its population of 1250 million people (1,25 Billion).

I'm sure the statistics would look very different any country didn't under report. And what the country reports is what it's citizens report. Rape is sadly one thing that tends to be grossly under reported, any where you go, and often times the reason is essentially the same, and that is because sometimes is easier to not report it. Whether it is the religious Somalia where it means a woman might be beaten or killed, the religious/secular America or secular Norway where the victims character may be assassinated and they have to relive the event many times over in the legal process, an uncooperative legal system, or fear, they often go unreported.
Same with suicides. Many religions consider it a sin/wrong doing of sorts, and one that is punished in the afterlife. That combined with negative stigmas about suicide, people will sometimes lie about a suicide. As do many parents whose child died from auto-erotic asphyxiation, which many parents report as a suicide. I know one man, of wealth and prestige, whose son was a drug dealer and was murdered in a deal gone bad, and to avoid his families name being dragged through the mud he did not press any charges, even though who knew who done it.

 

[Muffled]

There is no doubt in my mind that a decline in Christian culture in this country correlates with a decline in morality.

How does a comparison of "Little House on the Prairie" with "Two and a Half Men" work for you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Save that so far as I know, the mosts religious contry in the world is the Vatican.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[F0uad]

They are tribal because religion deprives them from education and such.

Thats not true at all what about Saudi Arabia, Morocco the whole of North-Africa and the middle-east without even including parts of Asia they were mainly Tribal based countries.

Education, science, wealth and many more ''good'' things were flourishing when Islam was flourishing in the time of the Islamic Empire i think your confused with the Christian Church.

 

[Skwim]

Of all you that have responded to my post even if you have a totally different position I say thank you..debating is a good thing...even if you totally disagree.
The only post I have a problem with is Skwim's post which is not even a religious one..

Aw shucks, you flatter me

​

So even if you are religious you can agree with me on this one. I mean is anyone else on this guy's side when it comes to statistics and reporting crime.

Of course, many, many are.

​

I will recap:

India total reported crimes: 1,764,630
Sweden total reported crime: 1,234,784

These number are not an average of crimes for every 1 million people but the actual number of crimes reported. India has almost 1,25 billion people..Sweden has 9,4 million which is 133 times smaller than India....India has 133 times more population.
My main point is that India is under reporting the number of crime in their country. I mean to have 1,7 million crimes among its population of 1250 million people (1,25 Billion).

In the post Skwim goes about saying that he uses common sense that these figures are correct for India. His explanation, which I don't even understand so I will not put it here, can be seen if you go back to page 3 of this post.

Yeah, like your main point is that India is under reporting the number of crime in their country

​

 

[Koldo]

I just saw an article on msn.com that says Latin American countries have the world's happiest people. Here's the link.

The caption to the article read:

Some Latin Americans said their culture tends to focus on positives such as friends, family and religion, despite daily lives that can be grindingly difficult.


The article points out Western European countries like France and Germany did not do well on the list of countries with the happiest people. Religion in Latin America tends to be heartfelt and quiet. Not the boisterous non-sense spewed by fundamentalist Christians (i.e. Huckabee types) and fundamentalist Muslim types.

I would take this piece of information with a whole sack of salt.

 

[Looncall]

Thats not true at all what about Saudi Arabia, Morocco the whole of North-Africa and the middle-east without even including parts of Asia they were mainly Tribal based countries.

Education, science, wealth and many more ''good'' things were flourishing when Islam was flourishing in the time of the Islamic Empire i think your confused with the Christian Church.

Request for information, how widespread were these good things among the populations? Are you sure they were not just goodies for the rich and powerful?

 

[LuisDantas]

I would take this piece of information with a whole sack of salt.

You better.

 

[Sunstone]

Here is the problem, those two are mutually exclusive, you can’t have a pure non-religious country and have Democracy. If you will notice on the so called non-religious countries, their laws and freedoms are hold over’s from their Christian foundation and tradition. So during a transition from religion to non-religion there can be good times, but a pure non-religious country is based on communism dictatorships because there is nothing to stop it from heading in that direction.

Evidence?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Request for information, how widespread were these good things among the populations? Are you sure they were not just goodies for the rich and powerful?

Actually for the benefit of our entire species for the rest of our existence. They developed many ideas including the hospital, university, toothbrush, and made many essential and crucial developments in mathematics. They even developed the idea of a flying machine before Da Vinci. I think even our game of Chess owes its origins to the Islamic Empire.

 

[Looncall]

Actually for the benefit of our entire species for the rest of our existence. They developed many ideas including the hospital, university, toothbrush, and made many essential and crucial developments in mathematics. They even developed the idea of a flying machine before Da Vinci. I think even our game of Chess owes its origins to the Islamic Empire.

You have not answered my question. Were the benefits available to the generality of the population, or only to an elite? How about the numerous slaves?

 

[gweber41]

I don't think you can argue that non-religious countries are better countries to live in. Generally, non-religious democracies at least are just, free, wealthy, and safe. However, I believe the cause of that is not that they are less religious. I think they are less religious as a result. Material prosperity has the effect of moving people away from God while at the same time providing people more opportunity to create an equitable society. On the contrary, religious countries tend to be poorer. Poverty creates domestic turmoil, but it also exposes the need for God that all of us have.

I don't therefore as a Christian think everybody should be poor so more people can see their need for God. However, I think we need to heed Jesus's words when he says, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God." (Mark 10:25). Wealth often creates in people a false sense of security--a feeling that they don't need God, but Jesus says, "Blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3).

In light of that, I think the economic prosperity of the Western world, though it has achieved fantastic advances in the quality of life for many people, has drawn many people away from what I believe is the true religion Christianity. Thus, we became wealthy, but it cost us many souls.

 

[Renji]

Isn't good governance (or something like that) the issue here and not whether or not a non-religious country can offer something better as compared with the religious one and vice versa?