Confessions of a born-again evangelical UU

[lilithu]

[Note: I actually wrote this about a month ago but am just posting it now. (And no, I still haven't update my RF webpage.)]

Namaste Yall!

First off let me apologize to Davidium as I might embarrass him a little here. Hopefully, any embarassment will be mitigated as I describe my own "conversion" experience.

Second let me explain that by "born again" I do not mean the drastic one-time conversion experience that most evangelical Christians refer to. I am using it in the way that Rob Hardies used it in the GA Sunday sermon that is available online at the UUA ("Born again and again and again"). The recognition that we are not static beings who leave this world the same person that we came in. We are always changing into new persons (hopefully for the better) by the knowledge and experiences that we gain and the choices that we make. The Existentialists the Buddhists understand being "born again and again and again" even if they don't use such terms. (Actually, Kierkegaard did use such terms.)

OK, I recently noticed that David had changed his sign-off. (what do you call the opposite of a greeting?) Whereas he used to end his posts with "Yours in faith and reason" he has shortened it to "Yours in faith." I figured two possibilities: a) he wanted to emphasize faith; or b) he got tired of the extra typing. Either way, for as long as I've known David (which admittedly is not long), "faith" has never been an issue of contention. There was even his recent eloquent post about what faith means to him as a UU. So yesterday, as I was over at his Dynamic Deism forums reading his account of his spriritual journey, imagine my surprise when I read him end with, "imagine the world if reason replaced faith."

This was posted only a year ago, and it seems a lot has changed from then to now. So David, I am hoping that when you have the time (I know you're very busy right now at the Red Cross shelter) that you might continue relating your remarkable story of your spiritual journey. How did you get from where you were a year ago to where you are now?

As for me, two days ago I was looking at my RF webpage thinking that I should update it when I reread these words: "So the only place for me was Unitarian-Universalism, which allows people of all faiths to come together." And I thought, whoa! did I really write that? Did I really believe that? Well, yes I did. Less than a year ago I was still seeing UU as no more than a collection of people of different faiths whose only commonality was their generally liberal political views towards social justice and their openness towards other religions. I thought of UU as a sort of meeting ground for social activism and religious pluralism. Don't get me wrong; I thought that was great, which is why I joined. But I didn't think we could get any further than that. About this time last year, I was a student in our church's adult course on UU Theology and introduced myself to the class by expressing my skepticism as to whether we could say anything definitive about what UUs believe. Afterall, what about freedom of conscience? This coming week, I will begin co-facilitating this same course, and I feel confident that I can speak with sincerity as to what our theology is. Once we can put aside the question of god(s) or no god(s), it is clear that we do share common beliefs and we share them very strongly. Our freedom of conscience, which allows us each to have many different and evolving beliefs, is based on a shared belief that is unchanging. Quite simply, it is as David described in another thread: 1) humanity is good (or all of nature is good); and 2) revelation (or the ways by which we understand the truth) is on-going and it comes from a variety of sources. Knowing that humanity is good, that is why we fight for social justice. Knowing that revelation is on-going, that is why we are open to critique and revision. This is the core of our faith that affects all of our other choices.

At some time, without me even fully realizing it, I came to see us UUs as our own unique religion. We are not just a collection of people who reject the negative aspects of other people's religions. And we are not just a collection of people who are open to "anything." Neither of these would engender commitment and action. What does engender commitment and action is our own positive and hopeful message, our own "gospel" or "good news." To refer to another thread, we are not UUs because "it's the least we can be." We are UUs because that is what our consciences tell us that we have to be. The "good news" for me was that here is a community that affirms what I've always known in my heart - that everyone deserves dignity and respect. The "good news" for me was that here is a community that works to put these beliefs into action - thru good works towards social justice. The "good news" for me was that I was home. Having heard this good news, I couldn't help but respond. Despite the fact that I've always been afraid of commitment, I found I could not help but commit to UU. And I found that I couldn't help but tell others about it.

Which brings me to the "evangelical" part. "Evangelical" today is increasingly associated with the conservative Christian movement that is trying to impose its beliefs on others via organized political efforts. But "evangelical" traditionally referred to a charismatic Christian movement, whose members experienced a conversion experience so personally profound they couldn't help but act on it. They couldn't help but put their beliefs into action. Early evangelical Christians were not conservative. Rather they were at the forefront of the abolitionist and feminist movements. They worked in the trenches on behalf of the indigent. And they couldn't help but tell others about their conversion experiences, which is what, unfortunately, led to their bible-thumping reputation.

Friends, I fear that I have become an evangelical UU. When people tell me that they are dissatisfied with their place of worship, I enthusiastically invite them to come visit mine. When others shake their heads and talk about what's wrong with the world, I talk about what my church and denomination are doing about it. And <gasp>, when others talk about what's wrong with religion(s), I talk about what's right about ours.

In the past, when evangelical Christians tried to explain to me that they weren't trying to convert me; they just were so full of happiness at having found the good news that they had to share it, I thought it was a load of crock. Now, I find myself in their position and worry that I come off sounding the same way to others. In the past, if while flipping channels on the tv, I saw a stadium full of evangelical Christians singing joyfully about being saved, I quickly changed the station, disturbed by what I saw. It wasn't their Christianity that disturbed me. I have no problem with a somber Latin mass or a staid Protestant service. It was the enthusiasm, the boundless joy, the emotion directed towards something that I did not understand. This June, when we gathered for General Assembly in the Ft Worth convention center, tv cameras and all, I clapped my hands, swayed side-to-side, and sang with abandon, buoyed by the shared sense of community. These were my people and we had found each other and I was overflowing with gratitude and joy. Some little voice inside my head said, "you've become one of those weirdos on tv" and a bigger voice shouted back, "Yeah, and I like it!!"

I find that nowadays I am often brimming over with joyful emotion about a religion based primarily on reason. Go figure. And I've decided that there's no reason to be ashamed of this. As Jesus said, what good is a light if it's hidden under a basket? And so I am confessing, nay I am announcing: I am born again! I am an evangelical UU, and proud of it! I will try to spread our gospel of love and respect for everyone as far as it will go. And if people don't want to hear it...

well ok, I'll just move down to the next street corner.

 

[Scott1]

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful story.... thanks so much for sharing it!

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I love it! Confess all you want! It doesn't sound like a bad thing to confess to, hehee!

 

[Davidium]

I came to see us UUs as our own unique religion.

Amen and Haleliuja!

As to the part about me... I need to update that "faith journey" again. (I believe it was the essay, A New Path, right?) I have indeed changed since I wrote it...

More one of emphasis though. My faith is different... it is not in God, but rather in my fellow men and women. For you nailed it when you said a central theme of UU theology is that we believe in the inherent goodness of humankind. It is in that I have faith.

You are also not alone in the way you are now viewing our faith. It is indeed a bit of a revolUUtion (sorry, had to) within our tradition to focus more on our own unique theology, and accept religious pluralism as a part of it... and to do so around the concept of Covenant.

More later, I have to go lead a worship/sharing service.... but thank you for the compliment... I will only be worried if I ever cease to change and grow in my theology and views... for stagnation is just another word for death, and I plan to remain theologically alive....

Yours in faith,

David

 

[michel]

That is a lovely story, Lilithu, thank you so much for sharing............

Much like you, I have looked at oldish posts and been quite surprised at myself; I think that's healthy, at least we know we are 'moving on'. I am very happy for you.

 

[Davidium]

Earlier in this thread, Lilithu discussed my changing view of faith. In thinking about that, I went back and looked at an old essay I had written on the topic of faith... and thought it might begin to answer her question . This essay was originally written in early 2003, but was revised in late 2003.

It was probably the beginning of my re-defination of the concept of faith to something that had meaning for me.

So, Lilithu, this one is for you.

This Deist’s Faith (Revised)
18 December 2003


A few months ago, I took the position that Deism did not require Faith. I was immediately jumped on by several people, and I have learned in life that when a position I take creates such a response, that either means I am very right or very wrong.

When I said it, what I meant was that belief in Deism did not require faith in any religious text. To me, this was what faith had always meant. I defined it as faith in God, but what it really meant to me was faith in the Bible.

I remember asking a Baptist minister when I was around twelve why God did not just show up and say, “Here I Am!” one day, if he really wanted people to believe he exists. His answer puzzled me for years. He told me that God would not prove his existence, for “proof denies faith, and without faith, God is nothing.”

I realize now that this was a cliché that this particular minister had used with questioning children (and probably adults) for a long time because it was probably told to him one day. Yet as a young impressionable boy, I thought this was a great piece of wisdom granted to me.

I interpreted this statement to mean that God’s power was derived directly from the fact that we had faith and belief in Him. My faith was very important. The stronger my faith, and the faith of others inspired by me, the stronger God would be.

Yet was my faith in God, or was it faith in another persons vision of God? When I became a Deist, I realized that I had kept my belief in God, but had lost my faith in the validity of the bible. I came to realize that when most Christians refer to Faith in God, they do not mean a belief that God will keep the planets in orbit, or that he will help them order their lives, or even a belief that God is good. What they mean is “Faith that the Bible is true”. And I no longer did.

So, can a Deist have “Faith in God?” As with any discussion, let us start at the beginning. Funk and Wagnalls dictionary defines faith as “belief without need of certain proof.” As we Deists fully admit that there is no “certain proof” of the existence of God, then we are all indeed “people of faith”. We have used reason (and in some cases personal inspiration) to come to a belief in God. In my case, I simply cannot accept that the natural laws which govern our universe came about by chance. Gravity, time, evolution, particle attraction, etc all seem too well coordinated to not be designed. And if they were designed, then there had to be a designer.

So, we could reasonably drop the argument here, and accept that, by definition, Deists are people of faith. But as with most concepts in this universe, faith is much more complex. We have shown that Deists have “Faith in the existence of God through the use of Reason”. But is this the same as “Faith in God?” No, I don’t think it is. I have “faith” that my ex-wife exists, but I do not have “faith” in her abilities to be a decent human being. Experience has taught me otherwise. So, as Deists, do we have faith that God is good?

When I first posted this article, I put herein an argument for the Goodness of God. I did this kinda tongue-in-cheek, hoping to incite an argument as to “God’s Goodness”, and you all certainly gave me that argument. But the argument I posted was wrong, for it made a mistake in its basis.

We have to remember that the concepts of “Good” and “Evil” as we commonly think of them are a human creation. Good and Evil only exist as a human value concept. Think about it… A star going nova and destroying the solar system it has powered for millennia is neither Good nor Evil. A hurricane is not Evil. A tiger feeding is not Evil, nor is it good.

So, if we divorce our common conception of Good and Evil from the human equation, then what are we left with? I propose the concept of Positive and Negative. We must each decide whether or not there is an overall purpose to the Universe, for Deism will not tell you this. Deism gives us a way to discover such answers for ourselves.

So the question of whether or not “God is Good” is irrelevant, for it would be anthropomorphizing God into a human condition and set of values. As such, we will discard this question, but bring up a related and much more important one… Is God’s purpose for the Universe Positive?…. Remember that one, I’ll get back to it in a minute.

Yet we also must look at another aspect of Deistic Faith, and that is our Faith in human Reason. What if, as many Christian faiths say, human reason was corrupted? What if the instrument we operate, or minds, gave us false information, bad analysis, and misleading data? What if we simply were not evolved enough to reason on the level necessary to try and understand God?

I find myself thinking along two lines in answering this concern, and both of them require a version of faith. The first line is that, my mind is all I have, and I have no choice but to use it. I have to trust what I reason, simply because I have no other viable option. There is no computer that can reason for me, and no revelation that was not the creation of other similarly corrupted human minds. Even if there was a computer, it would also be tainted, as humans would have made it…

And so, I must have faith in the products of my mind for I have nothing to replace it with. As such, I must have faith in my ability to reason, but I must always be on guard for mistakes, and I must debate my ideas with others, and be willing to discard ideas when they are no longer viable…. This way, even if my reason is corrupted, then at least I am likely to discover such corruption.

The second is the idea that, if human reason were truly corrupted, then I have to believe that humanity would have failed as a species long before now. We have to be doing something right to have survived and prospered as long as we have. So as I have faith in the future of humanity, I also have faith in the future, present, and past of human reason.

So, I have found faith in our belief in God, and faith in Deism’s ability to allow me to find such answers for myself. Are these the only places we will find faith in Deism? I will propose one more, based upon my own view of Deism and humanity.

I have faith that all of the universe, including humanity, has a purpose. Reason has told me that things do not generally exist without having a reason for doing so. When you study most of science, you can easily realize that everything is connected. The tiniest ant serves a useful purpose in aerating soil, which allows grasses to grow, which feed herbivores, which feeds predators (including us). Very little exists for no reason, and even in these cases you can often show how they once did have a purpose.

As I have faith that God is reflected in the Creation, so I have faith that we, humanity, have an important role to play in the Creation. In fact, I believe we are the penultimate reason for the Creation. I believe God intended to create intelligence in the universe other than his own. Call it reasoned speculation on my part, for I do not have nearly the required evidence to be true Deistic belief, and I doubt we can find such evidence. But we can still speculate, as long as we realize it is only speculation.

But I do have faith that God has a purpose for the universe. And I believe that I can aid in that purpose by finding ways for humanity to become more enlightened, and to find ways to keep us from destroying ourselves before we reach that enlightenment.

So I guess I was wrong. Faith is an inherent part of my Deism. In fact, I believe we Deists have a greater Faith, a Faith in God’s Existence, and that He has a purpose for the universe. The revelatory religions only have faith in ancient scribbling. Deists have a true Faith in the Creator and his Creation.




Now, as I said, this was two years ago, and there are places where I think I have moved beyond it. But, it does still speak to me, and I can still stand behind most of it. I could probably read it from a pulpit with little alteration.

Yours in faith,

David

 

[Nozem]

I think that this is a very intriguing thread and finding joy and enthusiasm in being 'UU' is postive. However there seem to me to be many differences between Unitarianism and Evangelical Christianity of the 'born again' variety. Firstly the 'good news' of the Evangelical Christians can rely on the dynamic that humanity are doomed to everlasting hell, but a certain number can be 'saved' . So if you think that everlasting hell is a reality, but you have escaped it by being 'born again', then yes there are grounds to be happy, I can see the logic. But the joy is also feeding on people's fear of death, fear of pain. One of the most impressive factors about Unitarianism is that there is no divine sanction for people who choose not to follow the UU path. Secondly Evangelical Christians claim exclusive privileges, this is based on the Reformation concept of The Elect who are pre-destinned to go to Heaven. Obviously the UU path tries to see the worth in other faiths. I could go on as there are probably many other points of contention, but what I have found interesting about this thread is the highlighting of the question 'how far should we promote Unitarianism' or should we just let other people get on with their own lives'? I have no answer to this question at the moment.

 

[Davidium]

I could go on as there are probably many other points of contention, but what I have found interesting about this thread is the highlighting of the question 'how far should we promote Unitarianism' or should we just let other people get on with their own lives'? I have no answer to this question at the moment.

Dont worry... the leadership of the UUA is struggling with the issue as well. In fact, that is part of why this conversation is so intriguing... because we are right now in the kind of situation where we may well be able to affect the decisions on this issue.

Yours in faith,

David

 

[Davidium]

My lady Lilithu,

I most humbly abase myself.... I hath allowed the versions of my essays to become confused, and in my carelessness allowed a posted essay to not be the most recent version of that essay be on the web...

It did cause you some slight heart failure, as the version you read was quite theologically dated for me... when in fact I had already written a newer version of that essay, and had not replaced the one on the web. In fact, when I updated the journal, I used the old version in my silly carelessness...



I humbly abase myself, and offer this token of an online version of the new version of the essay from back in July of this year to appease your most understandable royal wrath. I shall endeavor to only keep updated versions online in the future, so as not to shock thy royal self...

(Hehehe, I forgot how much fun it is to speak in SCA medieval speak. If you are not familiar with the SCA, then visit www.sca.org, alas an old hobby of mine I have had to give up due to time.)

No really, the essay with the line that shocked you had already been superseeded by another version of it, I had just forgotten to post it because I thought I already had. Took me a few days to go back and check.

Here is the new version... which will seem much more like the David you are familiar with . But in a way, reading the old one is a good thing, because it does go to show how much I have changed theologically in the last 18 months. And as long as I keep changing, and keep updating this particular "testimonial" essay, then all is well with me.

Here is the link.... http://dynamicdeism.org/tpst/viewtopic.php?p=25#25

In fact, that final line that so shocked you had been replaced with two paragraphs on the subject of faith....

I used to not believe in the importance of Faith, but I have changed there as well. Faith is important in our lives, but my faith is not in God, but in my fellow man. It is in the future of Humanity, and in our ability to solve the problems of our world, and even the Universe… I guess you could say I am a “cosmic optimist”.
I have also found that my new faith allows me to look with more objective eyes at the teachings of Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth, and I have found much of value in them, once the myth and mysticism have been removed. The “Sermon on the Mount” is our world’s greatest lesson in “Right Relations”. I have also found much wisdom about Christianity, and a version of it I could support, in the writings of Bishop John Shelby Spong, William Ellery Channing, Matthew Tindall, and Theodore Parker.
Without Faith, Reason is cold…. But without Reason, Faith is Blind!

Yours in Faith,

David...

 

[lilithu]

My lady Lilithu,

I most humbly abase myself.... I hath allowed the versions of my essays to become confused, and in my carelessness allowed a posted essay to not be the most recent version of that essay be on the web...

It did cause you some slight heart failure, as the version you read was quite theologically dated for me... when in fact I had already written a newer version of that essay, and had not replaced the one on the web. In fact, when I updated the journal, I used the old version in my silly carelessness...

My good sir Davidium, I had been pondering my responses to your post earlier in this thread (10/7). Does this mean I shouldn't bother?

 

[Davidium]

Lilithu,

No, I really would love to hear your responses... but realize the essay "This Deists Faith" was originally written over two years ago... and revised once or twice since. But I still find responses even to my old essays to be enlightening. Some people read an old essay, and then send me an incensed email, reading me the riot act... and then are even angrier to find I now agree with them.

Why do I leave some of the old ones out there? Because I once did think that way. If you want to read something I wrote that would shock you to the core.... I will send it to you. But I keep that one a little private (it is on the web, but no direct links go to it) because it was a little offensive. It was written about three years ago.

So yeah, comment away... but between the three you begin to see the evolution of my thinking on the concept of faith.

Yours in faith,

David

 

[Green Gaia]

Dont worry... the leadership of the UUA is struggling with the issue as well. In fact, that is part of why this conversation is so intriguing... because we are right now in the kind of situation where we may well be able to affect the decisions on this issue.

Yours in faith,

David

It's taken me a couple days to digest this thread. (BTW. Wonderful post, Lilithu! :clap ) It's a complicated question. Should we actively promote our faith and religion? I think we should, but not in the way some other groups promote their faiths. I don't foresee UUs organizing to go door-to-door or stand on busy streets and handout leaflets. Nothing wrong with that, if that is part of their faith. That's just not us. I think we already spread the "good news" of UUism through our actions and deeds and causes. We make no claim that UUism is the only right religion or that even UU is right for everyone, even though we are open to all. We spread the word by being a positive presence in the world, and if people want to shout our "good news" from the rooftops, that's OK too.

Amy

 

[lilithu]

It's taken me a couple days to digest this thread. (BTW. Wonderful post, Lilithu! :clap ) It's a complicated question. Should we actively promote our faith and religion? I think we should, but not in the way some other groups promote their faiths. I don't foresee UUs organizing to go door-to-door or stand on busy streets and handout leaflets. Nothing wrong with that, if that is part of their faith. That's just not us. I think we already spread the "good news" of UUism through our actions and deeds and causes. We make no claim that UUism is the only right religion or that even UU is right for everyone, even though we are open to all. We spread the word by being a positive presence in the world, and if people want to shout our "good news" from the rooftops, that's OK too.

Amy

I agree! The only time I suggest UU to someone else is when they are unhappy with their own faith tradition AND I sincerely believe they would be happy in ours. I would never try to convert someome away from their own beliefs when they are happy and being spiritually nourished. And a few times, when UUs were unhappy with UU, I have even counseled that they leave us for another faith. I personally know of four of my fellow congregants who have left to go elsewhere, two to the Episcopal church, one to Catholicism, and one to Judaism. And I think that's great. I count them as success stories on our part because we were there to help them come to terms with their own beliefs. Since we make no claim to be the one right religion, we are just happy when people find what's right for them.

I do agree that the most important way we share our beliefs is by our actions. However, I do also want to more directly make our pressence known to people. Again, not to convert those who are already happy in their faiths, but just to let them know we're here. Because I bet a lot of people out there are like me - searching for this faith, but not necessarily knowing that it exists, perhaps even giving up hope. I had heard of UU since college but I only knew it as the one where the ministers will let you have a wedding ceremony without using the word, "God." That by itself did not inspire me to check us out. It took years of searching on my own and a little bit of happenstance for me to really find us. I want to put our good news out there as a beacon to people who are already UUs at heart. I want to let them know that they are not alone, that there is a spiritual home to come to.

 

[Green Gaia]

"UUism: A Beacon of Hope" - I like that.

Well, I feel moved now to tell you about my journey to finding UU. I found it in the phone book. My son was a baby and I wanted to start attending a spiritual community, but I wasn't happy with the brand of Christianity I grew up with and had really not thought a lot about spirituality or anything religious in few years. So I opened up the phone book and started looking through the list of churches. It was a long list, several yellow book pages. None of them sounded "inclusive" and was a little disappointed until I got to the bottom of the section and weird church called "Unitarian Universalist". Unlike the other churches listed, I'd never heard of this one and looked it up what it was all about on the internet. I immediately fell in love with the ideas and principles of the church and found out all I could about the local church even before I started attending. I've never regretted that, although my attendance has lapsed at times throughout the years, mostly to do with personal issues and not from a dissatisfaction with the church.

I am very happy with the spiritual home I've found, and like you, if I feel someone could benefit from checking our church, I will mention it to them. Feeling at home in your church is one of the most important things, I believe, about being a part of any religious community. Having a place where you feel safe and be yourself and explore spirituality in a way that is right for you. You're right, we should be a beacon of hope to those who feel out of place where they are. Not to get UUs converts, I couldn't care less about the numbers game, but because it is so vitally important to a have true spiritual home no matter what you believe.

 

[Nozem]

I have noticed where I am in Brighton,England, that the Unitarian Church tries to maintain a community presence by letting the building be used for concerts and lectures, and encouraging the church to be visited when local art festivals or heritage days are on. Certainly Unitarianism would be at a detriment in Inter Faith work it was thought that we were trying to convert people who were committed to other faiths; in Britain the Jewish community and the Neo-Pagan community have been deliberately targetted by Evangelical Christian groups who want to poach their members , so would rightly be suspicious.But making sure people who may have already come to a standpoint which is compatible with Unitarianism from their own searching know that there is somewhere for them to go to is a very worthwhile activity.

 

[Nozem]

Oooops! Meant to write " Certainly Unitarianism would be at a detriment in Inter faith work IF it was thought ......"

 

[GPV]

What a lovely post. I am not a UU though I think if I were to change churches that is one denomination that appeals to me.

 

[lilithu]

What a lovely post. I am not a UU though I think if I were to change churches that is one denomination that appeals to me.

Thank you! Actually, I am very glad to have people who are not UUs that we can talk to. While I certainly want people to know we're here if they're looking for us, I also know that there are religious liberals who are perfectly happy in their own traditions and that's great!

What I want is to build a coalition of liberal religionists, whether Christian or Jewish or Buddhist... you get the picture, to stand together against those that would divide us. The biggest source of contention that prevents us from living in peace isn't our disagreement over whether God is unity or trinity. The biggest source of strife and division is that some people are ruled by fear instead of love. Some people think that God is as mean and petty as they are, and that justifies all sorts of awful things. Liberal religionists, whether Christian or UU or whatnot, stand for a God of love, a God of forgiveness, a God of grace, a God of peace, a God of all. Or, to put it in non-theistic terms for our non-theist friends, liberal religionists believe that humans are good and deserving of love, not fear and hate.

UUs make up only a very small portion of the religious community. There is no way that we can save the world by ourselves. We need the help of our liberal religious brothers and sisters of all labels to build the beloved community, the kingdom of God on earth. So I am very glad that you dropped by.