Confused about Satanism and JoS

[leoayla]

So I recently found this website called *edit* and I got really into it, I like the idea of Satan being like a father for mankind and his demons to be our allies and guardians. I think this might be the religion for me but when I was browsing the web a couple of days ago I found a bunch of videos and forums calling joyofsatan.org pro-nazi, racist,mere fantasy and the fonder member maxine to be a fake that uses the people who believe in spiritual satanism for her own purposes. I can't say I refuse to believe this but I would definetely like to know what the people on this forum think about this form of spiritual satanism, and if you can, enlighten me about other forms of theistic satanism/luciferianism that might be suitable for me.

Thanks

 

[Adelice]

Right now it all depends on working your way into the path of satanism - that page is the first stone placed on many satanist and luciferians first encounter with satanism , but it will all depend on how you do your research and what side you wanna be - theistic , non theistic , etc.

There is still not a lot of information on theistic satanism and luciferianism - an strong boom of non theistic followers appeared and left the lucifer believers in the position of devil workshippers and crazy people.

I cannot explain everything myself - in the end it will all depend on the research you make , sadly there is no writtings , or bibles or anything that can explain who lucifer or satan is.

And about that page, i say part of it is true - i like some of the writtings but they do show signs of being too nazi and hating people for no reason - wanting to destroy them. I say , try to make the best with what you have and leave the hate for someone who wants to be hateful - that last part is up to you.

 

[jasonwill2]

JoS have flawed information. Their respectful demon evocation and meditation techniques are good though.

Personally I think the JoS encourages immaturity and is generally a little bit' kooky. I say that out of experience with them though: I've talked to them on facebook and have been in one of their yahoo! messenger groups before. The general attitude and behavior there was pretty nuts.

Keep in mind though that there are much more sane sources. I do not know if we can post links or not, but if you want the link to my favorite and fairly objective site I can PM it to you. The site has a lot of helpful resources and essays by the owner.

 

[atropine]

Oh, the JoS.

I liked the ideas from JoS. I have always felt that Satan is, to me, Enki/Ea. I draw from Sumerian mythology and follow what I feel is the right way to go, as I always have; I've always thought that sort of thing, but when I stumbled on JoS, it clicked that I was a Satanist. However, after looking around, I realized that the pro-Nazi side of things just really turned me off. I do not feel that MY Satan... the Satan I feel exists... would support the mass killing and destruction of an entire race, religion or what have you. Fight against the nastier of them and fight to spread knowledge, freedom and self-empowerment? Yes. But that is not the same thing.

I don't think some of their ideas are fantasy; I have worked with Satan-as-Enki and gotten good results. However, I don't think they are truthful and I don't think they are the most positive, uplifting and empowering people to hang out around. That is just my opinion.

 

[Mindmaster]

Oh, the JoS.

I liked the ideas from JoS. I have always felt that Satan is, to me, Enki/Ea. I draw from Sumerian mythology and follow what I feel is the right way to go, as I always have; I've always thought that sort of thing, but when I stumbled on JoS, it clicked that I was a Satanist. However, after looking around, I realized that the pro-Nazi side of things just really turned me off. I do not feel that MY Satan... the Satan I feel exists... would support the mass killing and destruction of an entire race, religion or what have you. Fight against the nastier of them and fight to spread knowledge, freedom and self-empowerment? Yes. But that is not the same thing.

I don't think some of their ideas are fantasy; I have worked with Satan-as-Enki and gotten good results. However, I don't think they are truthful and I don't think they are the most positive, uplifting and empowering people to hang out around. That is just my opinion.

I'd agree, and as far as Satanists-that-actually-believe-in-Satan they've somewhat done us a disservice in that it's hard enough to get other people to understand you let alone having them feel that you're an anti-semitic piece of trash as well.

Insofar as being a traditional Satanist let me say I have no adverse reaction to the fact that people may be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. My problem with them has always been from the origin of the deception of their followers and lying to them about matters of which their comprehension is sorely incorrect. My concern naturally is that their misinformation is generally thwarting the progress of humanity and creating biases against faculties and experiences which are in the normal range of humanity.

For that which is normal for humankind nothing is wrong, and anything that preaches as such is inherently incorrect on a philosophical basis without any regard to any mythology.

 

[Iti oj]

This is like asking in mormoms catholics jw and protestants share the same beliefs,

 

[atropine]

My problem with them has always been from the origin of the deception of their followers and lying to them about matters of which their comprehension is sorely incorrect. My concern naturally is that their misinformation is generally thwarting the progress of humanity and creating biases against faculties and experiences which are in the normal range of humanity.

For that which is normal for humankind nothing is wrong, and anything that preaches as such is inherently incorrect on a philosophical basis without any regard to any mythology.

Exactly. I have known Catholics who are fine with me, fine with who I love and my life. They have always fought for my right to be who I am and do what I think is best. Them, I have no problem and in fact I get along with them rather well. But I have known far too many others (from various religions and from no religion at all) who would assume to know what is best for me, degrade me and say that how I choose to live is wrong. And many of them have whipped out the Bible to try and show me how/why. That is where I put my foot down and fight back.

Why would I operate from a mental place that would hurt people who DO care about me and wish me well? It's not good to paint ANY group with the same brush. It's much better to save my energy and my time for people who actually would hurt me-- physically, mentally, emotionally, financially-- if given a chance.

 

[Mindmaster]

Why would I operate from a mental place that would hurt people who DO care about me and wish me well? It's not good to paint ANY group with the same brush. It's much better to save my energy and my time for people who actually would hurt me-- physically, mentally, emotionally, financially-- if given a chance.

I basically consider myself combating ignorance and the death of true spirituality more than anything. I'm happy to live and let live anyone that isn't deciding to cause me a problem, but I consider it my birthright to protect myself to the Nth degree if I must. Survival is the first rule of nature, and doesn't need an excuse.

I realize some of the shambling zombies in this life have no inclination to reach toward their spiritual center and maybe they are simply not ready for such a voyage. Maybe this lifetime or the next, whatever... it's a small period of time anyway.. hundreds of years are a flash in the pan for eternity... We have plenty of time..

 

[atropine]

I hear you on that. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that some people just don't want to be logical, and would rather be hateful bigots than compassionate, educated human beings. The idealistic side of me says that maybe ignorance can be changed, but... Well, flat out, now I see why LaVey said stupidity should be painful.

 

[jasonwill2]

I hear you on that. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that some people just don't want to be logical, and would rather be hateful bigots than compassionate, educated human beings. The idealistic side of me says that maybe ignorance can be changed, but... Well, flat out, now I see why LaVey said stupidity should be painful.

Stupidity is painful, eventually at one point or another. Then again, life is painful, but can also be joyful if we allow ourselves to enjoy all the pleasures it has to offer.

Stupidity is different from ignorance however. Not having knowledge and being a moron are two different things.

 

[atropine]

They are different things, but I have been trying to do some educating lately on a certain subject, and the person I talked to basically did the "I can't hear you lalalalalala" thing. Unfortunately, sometimes when you think it's just a lack of education... nope, they really are just morons. Can't tell unless you try though, I suppose.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Joy of Satan site has some good things on it in terms of meditation and such, but the neo-Nazi stuff is horrid, in my opinion. Fascism, racism or any sort of bigotry and oppression of other human beings is quite anti-Satanic, in my view. Satanism represents liberation from all tyrannies, not the imposition of more tyranny! It is the way of spiritual anarchy, at least in my view. I am an anarchist, period. To me, Satan is a purely spiritual being. He is not some blond haired, blue-eyed white man or alien living on some other planet with a chip on his shoulder about Jews! Lol. He certainly doesn't care about what your "race" is or what your physical body looks like at all. I don't view him as being so petty. The Adversary has been adored by or has arisen in just about every ethnicity at some point or another. He champions ALL of humanity.

 

[Mindmaster]

The Joy of Satan site has some good things on it in terms of meditation and such, but the neo-Nazi stuff is horrid, in my opinion. Fascism, racism or any sort of bigotry and oppression of other human beings is quite anti-Satanic, in my view. Satanism represents liberation from all tyrannies, not the imposition of more tyranny! It is the way of spiritual anarchy, at least in my view. I am an anarchist, period. To me, Satan is a purely spiritual being. He is not some blond haired, blue-eyed white man or alien living on some other planet with a chip on his shoulder about Jews! Lol. He certainly doesn't care about what your "race" is or what your physical body looks like at all. I don't view him as being so petty. The Adversary has been adored by or has arisen in just about every ethnicity at some point or another. He champions ALL of humanity.

True enough, but honestly if you cut through all the anti-semitic trash there is a lot of value on their site. Read the magic sections, the meditations, and ignore all the rants. Its sort of like when you go to a buffet and they have a bunch of crap there that you don't want. Take what's good.. trash the rest... Their commentaries about factual information of other religions are completely fabricated as well so I'd not be reading them.

You have to understand that being Jewish is a race not just a religion, and that racism isn't very Satanic by nature. How can do support individuality, true freedom, and rebellion if you do not support it for everyone? Herein lies my problem with the concept. Everyone has the right to join the fight as far as I am concerned -- how you got here is irrelevant... You could have been born a Jew, Christian, or Muslim but you came to Satan of your own accord. It would be rather strange for a self-initiating religion such as mine to care about such silly things. Apparently, these contracts with the Devil only have name blanks.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

True enough, but honestly if you cut through all the anti-semitic trash there is a lot of value on their site. Read the magic sections, the meditations, and ignore all the rants. Its sort of like when you go to a buffet and they have a bunch of crap there that you don't want. Take what's good.. trash the rest... Their commentaries about factual information of other religions are completely fabricated as well so I'd not be reading them.

You have to understand that being Jewish is a race not just a religion, and that racism isn't very Satanic by nature. How can do support individuality, true freedom, and rebellion if you do not support it for everyone? Herein lies my problem with the concept. Everyone has the right to join the fight as far as I am concerned -- how you got here is irrelevant... You could have been born a Jew, Christian, or Muslim but you came to Satan of your own accord. It would be rather strange for a self-initiating religion such as mine to care about such silly things. Apparently, these contracts with the Devil only have name blanks.

I totally agree with you. There is some good stuff on that site. But you definitely have to use discernment, as with all things. It is sad to see some fellow theistic Satanists falling for that divisive crap. In fact, the tendency of the Church of Satan to flirt with fascism is actually part of what turned me off from it. Too bad some theistic Satanists don't have more sense. You would think we would be a bit more sophisticated. But I guess we're still humans at the end of the day, and capable of being wrong.

Yes, that is true. There is no such thing as a "Jewish race". In fact, modern science tells us that "race" in the way that racists think of it is meaningless. We are all humans. A person of Jewish descent is just as capable of revering Satan and living out his precepts as I am. No matter who a person is - if they live out Satanic ideals whether consciously or not, they are a brother or a sister to me. I don't see any use for needless divisions.