Confused With My Own Beliefs

[NeoTribalism]

My apologies advance - this might be bit of a ramble as I'm trying to feel around and get some kind of point of my beliefs.

I've always leaned towards the Panentheistic spectrum of my beliefs, but I feel as if there is more (or less?) to it.

I was born and raised Catholic, although I learned very little about Catholicism as a whole. I basically went because my family did and I thought it was the good thing to do. Just going through the motions. That all faded away when I hit my later teens and moved out on my own. It became too hard for me to blindly follow rules of a god that has had its word perverted and twisted by man for the purposes of control, greed, and power.

Now, I just turned 30 a few months ago, been married for a few years and recently been thinking of religion and my beliefs again. I managed to find this forum, which has been an amazing and eye-opening experience. Almost a little overwhelming at times, with all the information, haha.

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

I like to believe those who are "good" and generally aren't a huge @$%hole throughout life get some kind of reward in the end. Not that you have to live a squeaky-clean, pious life; But, you know - do the easy stuff - don't murder, rape, or steal.

I do realize that doesn't fit in with panentheistic belief systems, but I'm kinda torn.

Has anyone had similar conflicting feelings? The same ones?

Looking for some kind of advice.

 

[J. F. Gallant]

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

I like to believe those who are "good" and generally aren't a huge @$%hole throughout life get some kind of reward in the end. Not that you have to live a squeaky-clean, pious life; But, you know - do the easy stuff - don't murder, rape, or steal.

I do realize that doesn't fit in with panentheistic belief systems, but I'm kinda torn.

Has anyone had similar conflicting feelings? The same ones?

Looking for some kind of advice.

Have you ever considered the possibility that nothing was ever created, and therefore nothing can ever be destroyed; that there was never a beginning, and therefore there can never be an end?

Contemplating these questions and exploring the possible answers may be more relevant to your position than you may be immediately aware.

 

[George-ananda]

Sounds like you believe in karma as many pantheists (including myself) believe. Karma fits with pantheism. So why are you torn? I believe there is an individual life after death experience followed by reincarnation for those needing more physical plane learning experiences.

 

[Tumah]

Judaism is panentheistic and I see Eastern Orthodox and Unitarians are as well some Islamic thinkers.
So I'm not sure what you mean about these beliefs not fitting in with classical panenetheists.

 

[arthra]

Welcome to the Forum Neotribalism! and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

There is something to the idea "we reap what we sow" that I can relate to...

"Alas! naught is reaped but what is sown, and naught is taken but what is laid up, save by the grace of God and His favor."

We are not always aware in our daily existence how inter-related things can be. I mean we can go through life and be unaware of the effects of our actions. So you are thirty years old and been married a few years... that's great. You have a commitment to another person and are already contributing the beginnings of your family and likely have connections with your in-laws and natural relatives. All of this an essential "building block" for society. The peace and security you are building now will have long lasting effects.

But take another example..

Recently a family lived in my community that took another course... They took the lives of fifteen people and wounded others at a peaceful gathering a few miles from my home. They had a child... and some extended family as well. In the shoot out that followed the couple died. Will they be "cast off into nothingness"... Well their actions had ramifications that reverberated... Their child will be raised by someone else in hopefully a stronger more together family unit and someday may contribute to society. What followed this massacre was a response from the community. Memorial services were held for those who were killed and funds were raised for the families... The community came closer together.

"War and rapine with their attendant cruelties are an abomination to God, and bring their own punishment, for the God of love is also a God of justice and each man must inevitably reap what he sows."

 

[use_your_brain]

Better you learn Islam.

 

[NeoTribalism]

Thank you for the replies, everyone.

I honestly didn't know that some of the major religions were so heavily related to panentheism. I guess I still have a lot of studying to do.

I don't know why I was so torn...I just thought many of those beliefs were so far separated from one another, they couldn't possibly make a connection. I was under the impression that panentheism/pantheism's version of God didn't really interact that much with his creation. Just a "set it and forget it" kinda deal.

As for Karma, I guess I do believe in that as well. Fits more a long the lines of my own personal feelings/beliefs.

And my wife is Muslim. I attend the Mashdid with her and her family quite often. Although, most of it is spoken in Arabic and I can't understand it, being there still gives me a sense of calm and peace.

Plus, the food afterwards is always amazing!

 

[Native]

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

Regardless of everything, there really is "some higher power that really does play a direct role", namely the natural forces of light, the electromagnetism which governs and gives motion to everything.

About "evil and good", there is no such things in nature. You can go along with nature which promotes your life - or the opposite which doesn´t.

Besides this, it´s my opinion that we all get some immediate feedback to our full life when leaving this and in this way live through the good and lesser good situations of life.

 

[Rival]

Zoroastrianism is the way to go C'mon, we need more

 

[NeoTribalism]

Better you learn Islam.

Could you explain? I'm genuinely interested in all avenues of learning. I frequent the Mosque with my wife and would love to have some discussions with our Imam.

 

[Deidre]

Maybe we are all the composite of a few beliefs. Or several. It is what makes us human and interesting. But, if you feel a calling or pull towards one set of beliefs over another...follow that calling. I felt a calling to explore Islam last year, and did so...experienced the religion...not just studied it. Came away realizing that converting wasn't really for me. Follow the path that calls you until it no longer calls you, would be my advice.

 

[use_your_brain]

Could you explain? I'm genuinely interested in all avenues of learning. I frequent the Mosque with my wife and would love to have some discussions with our Imam.

islam is the way to the paradise.

 

[DawudTalut]

.........That all faded away when I hit my later teens and moved out on my own. It became too hard for me to blindly follow rules of a god that has had its word perverted and twisted by man for the purposes of control, greed, and power.

Peace be on you.
How did you know the perversions?

I managed to find this forum, which has been an amazing and eye-opening experience.

So nice.

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

As I believe, it is due to the fact this feeling is written in our blue-print.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

The Hereafter.

Looking for some kind of advice.

You will find solace in:
Inter-Religious Cooperation
Four Characteristics of a Materialistic Society
Accountability
International Relations—The Principle of Absolute Justice Equally Applicable to All
To Be at Peace with Oneself
The Object of Man’s Creation
@
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf
[Ahmadiyya-Muslim resource]
and
MTA [al-arabiya] for you spouse.

Many of your question are addressed in these peaceful resources.

 

[Crypto2015]

My apologies advance - this might be bit of a ramble as I'm trying to feel around and get some kind of point of my beliefs.

I've always leaned towards the Panentheistic spectrum of my beliefs, but I feel as if there is more (or less?) to it.

I was born and raised Catholic, although I learned very little about Catholicism as a whole. I basically went because my family did and I thought it was the good thing to do. Just going through the motions. That all faded away when I hit my later teens and moved out on my own. It became too hard for me to blindly follow rules of a god that has had its word perverted and twisted by man for the purposes of control, greed, and power.

Now, I just turned 30 a few months ago, been married for a few years and recently been thinking of religion and my beliefs again. I managed to find this forum, which has been an amazing and eye-opening experience. Almost a little overwhelming at times, with all the information, haha.

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

I like to believe those who are "good" and generally aren't a huge @$%hole throughout life get some kind of reward in the end. Not that you have to live a squeaky-clean, pious life; But, you know - do the easy stuff - don't murder, rape, or steal.

I do realize that doesn't fit in with panentheistic belief systems, but I'm kinda torn.

Has anyone had similar conflicting feelings? The same ones?

Looking for some kind of advice.

The answer for your life is Jesus Christ. The Bible says that we are all sinners and that all sinners will be judged by God. That means that God does not leave any sin unpunished. Since God does not leave any sin unpunished, all of us are bound for hell. However, as prophesied by the Old Testament prophets, God reached out in order to save us from our sins. God being a trinity (three persons into a single being), Jesus, also known as God the Son, came to Earth to pay for our sins by being punished for them in the cross, in order for anyone who accepts Jesus as a Saviour and Lord to be saved and remain saved for all eternity. Accepting Jesus as our Saviour means that we acknowledge the fact that we are sinners that need to be saved, and that we also acknowledge the fact that we are not powerful enough or just enough to attain the moral perfection required to save ourselves. Accepting Jesus as our Lord means that we choose him to be our role model and that we swear allegiance to him, to obey him and live as he asked us to live. If you want to be saved and if you want God to adopt you as His son, say this simple prayer aloud: "Jesus, I believe that you rose from the dead and that you are the Son of God. I accept you as my Lord and Saviour". The Bible says

"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." (Romans 10:9-10)

"Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:4-12, written centuries before Christ)

 

[Neo Deist]

My apologies advance - this might be bit of a ramble as I'm trying to feel around and get some kind of point of my beliefs.

I've always leaned towards the Panentheistic spectrum of my beliefs, but I feel as if there is more (or less?) to it.

I was born and raised Catholic, although I learned very little about Catholicism as a whole. I basically went because my family did and I thought it was the good thing to do. Just going through the motions. That all faded away when I hit my later teens and moved out on my own. It became too hard for me to blindly follow rules of a god that has had its word perverted and twisted by man for the purposes of control, greed, and power.

Now, I just turned 30 a few months ago, been married for a few years and recently been thinking of religion and my beliefs again. I managed to find this forum, which has been an amazing and eye-opening experience. Almost a little overwhelming at times, with all the information, haha.

Even though I may feel like I'm more of a panentheist, I still can't shake this feeling that there is some higher power that really does play a direct role in life.

I don't know if this sounds petty or not; But I think for me, it ultimately comes down to a sense of evil being punished and good being rewarded in the end - a punishment/reward system. I find it so hard to convince myself that people who murder, rape, or cause genocide can just die, be cast off into nothingness, and have their energy recycled into another form without any sort of repercussions.

I like to believe those who are "good" and generally aren't a huge @$%hole throughout life get some kind of reward in the end. Not that you have to live a squeaky-clean, pious life; But, you know - do the easy stuff - don't murder, rape, or steal.

I do realize that doesn't fit in with panentheistic belief systems, but I'm kinda torn.

Has anyone had similar conflicting feelings? The same ones?

Looking for some kind of advice.

Deism.

The belief in God based on personal observations in nature/the cosmos, instead of some ancient holy book. The idea that we have free will and suffer the consequences of our actions, or the actions of others. We hope for an afterlife though we can't prove one exists, and surely living a moral life will grant us such reward.

 

[EtuMalku]

Confused With My Own Beliefs

Perhaps the confusion lies in that they are not your own Beliefs . . .

 

[NeoTribalism]

islam is the way to the paradise.

Could you explain a little more?

I hear this all the time at the Mosque, but other than the religion itself telling it is the right one - how do I know?

 

[use_your_brain]

Could you explain a little more?

I hear this all the time at the Mosque, but other than the religion itself telling it is the right one - how do I know?

"And whoso seeketh as religion other than Islam it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter. " (Quran).

Prophet Muhammad said:
"Whoever said the phrase THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH with full sincerity, then he will enter Paradise."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Judaism is panentheistic and I see Eastern Orthodox and Unitarians are as well some Islamic thinkers.
So I'm not sure what you mean about these beliefs not fitting in with classical panenetheists.

I'm a panentheist, too, and I believe that there is a system of justice built into the Cosmos. All souls eventually get what they earn.

 

[tjgillies]

Could you explain? I'm genuinely interested in all avenues of learning. I frequent the Mosque with my wife and would love to have some discussions with our Imam.

If you are interested in Islam you might want to have a look at Baha'i. It came out of Islam but is now considered its own religion.