Consciousness and subjectivity

[sandandfoam]

What do you think of the idea that an organized stream of mental images produces a mind - but such a mind is unconscious. The suggestion is that this mind requires subjectivity, a knower, in order to become conscious.

 

[jmvizanko]

What are "mental images?"

 

[sandandfoam]

What are "mental images?"

A mental image is an experience that, on most occasions, significantly resembles the experience of perceiving some object, event, or scene, but occurs when the relevant object, event, or scene is not actually present to the senses

- Wiki

 

[Greygon]

What do you think of the idea that an organized stream of mental images produces a mind - but such a mind is unconscious. The suggestion is that this mind requires subjectivity, a knower, in order to become conscious.

The first part seems to be backward. I would think that a mind produces an organized stream of images and a mind necessarily must be conscious, at least of itself. Otherwise we have nothing--which is what rocks dream about. But, the idea of the rock must be imported to make this comment work.

 

[Willamena]

What do you think of the idea that an organized stream of mental images produces a mind - but such a mind is unconscious. The suggestion is that this mind requires subjectivity, a knower, in order to become conscious.

I would offer an alternative image. "Mind" is a structured, organized stream of images/thought produced unconsciously, which is to say without a thought about them. When a thought about them surfaces, that is being conscious of them. When we then are conscious of being conscious of them, (the image of) a "knower" is born.

 

[sandandfoam]

I would offer an alternative image. "Mind" is a structured, organized stream of images/thought produced unconsciously, which is to say without a thought about them. When a thought about them surfaces, that is being conscious of them. When we then are conscious of being conscious of them, (the image of) a "knower" is born.

Nice.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What do you think of the idea that an organized stream of mental images produces a mind - but such a mind is unconscious. The suggestion is that this mind requires subjectivity, a knower, in order to become conscious.

First there needs to be established facts on how such an organised stream can be identified as to how it produces a mind. Personally I just don't see how this could be even possible.

Closest I can relate to this is how an "unconsciousness" series of mental imprints can be established "beforehand", such as those found among instinctual traits. (building nests and migrations etc.) to where an animal knows in advance on how how to do something involving a degree of complexity without any observable prior learning.

 

[Willamena]

A mental image is an experience that, on most occasions, significantly resembles the experience of perceiving some object, event, or scene, but occurs when the relevant object, event, or scene is not actually present to the senses

I might point out that this is not quite correct. Mental images are not exclusively imagined images. Qualia are proposed as mental images --solidity under your feet as you walk on the sidewalk, sound impacting the ear, or taste impacting the tongue --although the idea of quantifying such experience is for some hard to wrap the brain around.

 

[sandandfoam]

First there needs to be established facts on how such an organised stream can be identified as to how it produces a mind. Personally I just don't see how this could be even possible.

Closest I can relate to this is how an "unconsciousness" series of mental imprints can be established "beforehand", such as those found among instinctual traits. (building nests and migrations etc.) to where an animal knows in advance on how how to do something involving a degree of complexity without any observable prior learning.

By the way consciousness is out forward in this idea I think that unconsciousness is the abscence of awareness of mental states.
One of my favourite poems is Yeats' 'Death' - "Nor dread nor hope attend A dying animal" as I'm getting it the view presented here accounts for this by unconsciousness. Animals have active minds but not a sense of self which acts as witness to said activity.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What do you think of the idea that an organized stream of mental images produces a mind - but such a mind is unconscious. The suggestion is that this mind requires subjectivity, a knower, in order to become conscious.

Where did the organized stream of mental images come from?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Subjectivity IMO is an emergent property of heightened complexity particularly neurobiological complexity as the universe reached a critical age of 13.7 billion years a pattern of "ego" flashed into existence to endow it with a perception of space and time and place.

 

[jarofthoughts]

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