Consciousness in Cavemen? A Debate.

[mickiel]

In Isaiah 45:13, God said that he " Arroused a man in Righteousness." And made his ways Smooth. This means God has the Power to " Excite humans", into any action he wants them to think and do. And he can lead a human mind to think Righteous in their Consciousness, which he didnot do to Primordal man.

They were not Aroused, they were " Somnambulistic", or walking as if they were Sleep in their Consciousness.

And I want to go into that, and its ramifications.

Peace.

Basically all of humanity, including religious believers, are " Sleep concerning Gods Awesome Plan for Salvation of us all." Certainly Primordal man was asleep in their Consciousness and stayed asleep for hundreds of Thousands of years. And that is one reason for their creation, God wanted to show that it is he who gives and controls Consciousness, espically " Spiritual Consciousness."

A horrid lesson from God, it reveals that he can manipulate the human Consciousness so profoundly, that millions of humans can be blinded in their Consciousness, still be alive and ticking, but still be confined within their minds.

Awesome incredible Power from God.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Basically all of humanity, including religious believers, are " Sleep concerning Gods Awesome Plan for Salvation of us all." Certainly Primordal man was asleep in their Consciousness and stayed asleep for hundreds of Thousands of years. And that is one reason for their creation, God wanted to show that it is he who gives and controls Consciousness, espically " Spiritual Consciousness."

A horrid lesson from God, it reveals that he can manipulate the human Consciousness so profoundly, that millions of humans can be blinded in their Consciousness, still be alive and ticking, but still be confined within their minds.

Awesome incredible Power from God.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

Could you please explain to me how you rationalise how an omniscient god could possibly learn such a horrid lesson.

Omniscience would mean he would not have made this mistake because he would already know the outcome.

 

[mickiel]

Could you please explain to me how you rationalise how an omniscient god could possibly learn such a horrid lesson.

Omniscience would mean he would not have made this mistake because he would already know the outcome.

You are defining it as a mistake, I define it as intentional.

Thats why I never allow others to define biblical events for me, or historical events.

They come right out of left feild. When the definition is right on home plate.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Ok so what was his intention for making these pre-conscious humans?

 

[Classicus]

I'm reading through this and I'm just thinking: "what?!'.

 

[rusra02]

I have often been accused of not debating, which I disagree with. But I will make a " Conscious effort" to dispute that accusation in this thread. I am interested in Ancient history, and the bible is part of that in my view. I never have believed that civilization is just 2000 years old or that Adam was the first human created. Obviously we had Nenderthal and Cromagnon prehistoric humans, obviously. But its my contention that they couldnot have had Consciousness, as we have it. And I don't think Consciousness is complettely understood.

If God would have given them Consciousness, Civilization would have started with them. Language would have began with them. Mathmatics would have began with them, Government would have began with them, Science would have began with them. None of these things began with them, so I see no way possible they had anything beyond an " Instinctual Consciousness."

Peace.

The Bible does not say that civilazation is just 2000 years old. It does say that Adam was the first human and created by God. As for Neanderthal and Cromagnon skeletons, Neanderthal man (named after the Neander district in Germany where the first fossil was found) was undoubtedly human. At first he was pictured as bent over, stupid looking, hairy and apelike. Now it is known that this mistaken reconstruction was based on a fossil skeleton badly deformed by disease. Since then, many Neanderthal fossils have been found, confirming that he was not much different from modern humans. In his book Ice, Fred Hoyle stated: “There is no evidence that Neanderthal man was in any way inferior to ourselves.” As a result, recent drawings of Neanderthals have taken on a more modern look.

Another fossil type frequently encountered in scientific literature is Cro-Magnon man. It was named for the locality in southern France where his bones were first unearthed. These specimens “were so virtually indistinguishable from those of today that even the most skeptical had to concede that they were humans,” said the book Lucy.
It is nothing short of scientific fraud to depict these people as apelike.​

 

[mickiel]

Ok so what was his intention for making these pre-conscious humans?

Read the thread, I have already answered that at least 20 times.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The Bible does not say that civilazation is just 2000 years old. It does say that Adam was the first human and created by God. As for Neanderthal and Cromagnon skeletons, Neanderthal man (named after the Neander district in Germany where the first fossil was found) was undoubtedly human. At first he was pictured as bent over, stupid looking, hairy and apelike. Now it is known that this mistaken reconstruction was based on a fossil skeleton badly deformed by disease. Since then, many Neanderthal fossils have been found, confirming that he was not much different from modern humans. In his book Ice, Fred Hoyle stated: “There is no evidence that Neanderthal man was in any way inferior to ourselves.” As a result, recent drawings of Neanderthals have taken on a more modern look.

Another fossil type frequently encountered in scientific literature is Cro-Magnon man. It was named for the locality in southern France where his bones were first unearthed. These specimens “were so virtually indistinguishable from those of today that even the most skeptical had to concede that they were humans,” said the book Lucy.
It is nothing short of scientific fraud to depict these people as apelike. ​

I don't believe primordal man was apelike either, the fruad in science is rampant, because they are used to calling their fraud, " Theory."

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Read the thread, I have already answered that at least 20 times.

Peace.

I know you say so he can test humanity out.

All im saying is that an omniscient god wouldnt need to test something out because he would already know the answer.

How do you account for this inconsistency in your theory?

 

[mickiel]

I know you say so he can test humanity out.

All im saying is that an omniscient god wouldnt need to test something out because he would already know the answer.

How do you account for this inconsistency in your theory?

Omniscience in God is misunderstood. God has all knowledge, but he is interested in the Knowledge of his creations, because he didnot give his creations all knowledge. God gave humans Consciousness, and he is defintely interested in how we think, which has nothing to do with his Knowledge, or ability to know all things. When he created humanity with a Conscious mind, he has shown intrest in how we think, so the answer is " Both", he can know ahead what we will think, or choose not to know and observe how we think.

Case in point is Gen. 2:19,God brought EVERY animal he had created to Adam, to SEE what Adam would call them. God could have named these animals himself, but was more interested in what Adam would call them. So in this situation, God didnot draw on his Omnisience, but on mans thinking. And God does not change, meaning if he did this then, he's still doing it now. Which defines a way of God and tells us he does not always draw on his ability to know all things. A being with this incredible ability, can know all things, and fix himself not to know , just as well.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Omniscience in God is misunderstood. God has all knowledge, but he is interested in the Knowledge of his creations, because he didnot give his creations all knowledge. God gave humans Consciousness, and he is defintely interested in how we think, which has nothing to do with his Knowledge, or ability to know all things. When he created humanity with a Conscious mind, he has shown intrest in how we think, so the answer is " Both", he can know ahead what we will think, or choose not to know and observe how we think.

Case in point is Gen. 2:19,God brought EVERY animal he had created to Adam, to SEE what Adam would call them. God could have named these animals himself, but was more interested in what Adam would call them. So in this situation, God didnot draw on his Omnisience, but on mans thinking. And God does not change, meaning if he did this then, he's still doing it now. Which defines a way of God and tells us he does not always draw on his ability to know all things. A being with this incredible ability, can know all things, and fix himself not to know , just as well.

Peace.

Thankyou for sharing

 

[mickiel]

Thankyou for sharing

Well your welcome. Its the same with " Omnipresence", Just because God has the " Ability to be in all places", does not mean he chooses to do that. Why would God want to be in your bathroom when you use the toilet? I mean he can, but just as well wouldnot bother with it. Either one, so there is choice even with his great power. God can stop all wars on earth right now, but chooses not to. He can give every single humans mind perfect belief in him, he does not. So we cannot define God by his " Omnis", because he does not draw on it like we think he does.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Basically all of humanity, including religious believers, are " Sleep concerning Gods Awesome Plan for Salvation of us all." Certainly Primordal man was asleep in their Consciousness and stayed asleep for hundreds of Thousands of years. And that is one reason for their creation, God wanted to show that it is he who gives and controls Consciousness, espically " Spiritual Consciousness."

A horrid lesson from God, it reveals that he can manipulate the human Consciousness so profoundly, that millions of humans can be blinded in their Consciousness, still be alive and ticking, but still be confined within their minds.

Awesome incredible Power from God.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

The whole world of human Consciousness concerning our God is spiritually Sonambulistic, basically asleep to the awesome plan and doings of God, we don't know what God is doing? Primordal man certainly didnot know and they had no spiritual texts to even give them speculation about their future, they didnot even worry about their future, which would have been a sign of Consciousness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The whole world of human Consciousness concerning our God is spiritually Sonambulistic, basically asleep to the awesome plan and doings of God, we don't know what God is doing? Primordal man certainly didnot know and they had no spiritual texts to even give them speculation about their future, they didnot even worry about their future, which would have been a sign of Consciousness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

The true future of all of created humanity has been preset , sealed and Christ will deliver it to the Father when God says to him its time. Every last one of us will be saved from the suffering of not truly knowing God, and not knowing him is a definte suffering within itself. All Atheist are destined to be saved, all unbelievers, all communist, all tribal groups, all of humanity has been included in this Great Awesome Heart planned ressurection into Reality! All of Christianity will be saved, inspite of their unknowing participation in religious deception.

THIS is the Awesome Heart of our Creator God!

It is also why I know Primordal man had no Conscious awareness of this great sealed destiny, humans will leave some kind of evidence of their perceived destiny by the way they live.

The way they have Lived. And God knows this, inspires this. Makes sure there is some sign of him somewhere, yet Primordal man was given no sign. In Matt. 16:2-4, Jesus spoke about discerning the " Signs of the Times".

No such signs were given Primordal man, Why?

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

In Hebrews 10:9, a hint at Gods doings is given away;" He takes away the first in order to establish the second." This is the root of Primordal Mans existance, they were the first, but only to establish the second, or civilized man.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

In Hebrews 10:9, a hint at Gods doings is given away;" He takes away the first in order to establish the second." This is the root of Primordal Mans existance, they were the first, but only to establish the second, or civilized man.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Primordal humans were the first humans God created, and the bible does not clearly bear record of them, so it is NOT infallible, it does NOT provide all knowledge of God. Humanity is NOT 6,000 and something years old, it could be upwards of 6 million years old, we simply do not know. Adam was the first human created " With Consciousness", which is the image of God, he was not the first human created. Primordal humans were created without working Consciousness, they were NOT created in the image of God, but they were the first human prototypes created. Then God took them away to establish the second man, or humans created in his image, having working Consciousness , able to experience and determine Good and Evil.

Primordal man had no Good or Evil in their living, they were " Nuetral and Sonambulistic", living entirely on an instinctual Conscious ability, like animals.

And I want to go over that again.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Primordal man had no Good or Evil in their living, they were " Nuetral and Sonambulistic", living entirely on an instinctual Conscious ability, like animals.

And I want to go over that again.

Peace.

The hughe implications of this is that God will create a whole race and multiply it, keep them blinded from his will, and just not judge them for that reality they were placed within. Its no different with modernday man, we are still blinded, and still not being judged by God now!

Which means there is no condemnation in any of our futures with God.

And I need to expand on that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The hughe implications of this is that God will create a whole race and multiply it, keep them blinded from his will, and just not judge them for that reality they were placed within. Its no different with modernday man, we are still blinded, and still not being judged by God now!

Which means there is no condemnation in any of our futures with God.

And I need to expand on that.

Peace.

We are not condemned by God, no human is, nor ever has been. Religion condemns people everyday, but they do not represent God.

God is a mystery, there is just no way around this truth, he just is. His creation of Primordal man is a mystery, his silence toward humanity is a mystery, his whole being is a mystery. Thats one reason I like God.

I like trying to figure out why God has done, and has NOT done, and is doing things. And will do things in our future.

But yet the things he did in the past, are interesting, like the creation of Primordal man with no fluid Consciousness.

And I want to go back into why I think he did.

Peace.

 

[rojse]

 

[mickiel]

But yet the things he did in the past, are interesting, like the creation of Primordal man with no fluid Consciousness.

And I want to go back into why I think he did.

Peace.

We have sympathy and identification with Primordal man, because they were living humans, and more evidence is being uncovered that suggest they were NOT short ape like beings, they were physically no different than we.

The difference was Consciousness, and the more of this evidence that comes out, the more this weak theory of Evolution will be further debunked. God didNOT create Primordal humans to evolve, in fact, he created them to be stagnant and Sonambulistic, not developing at all.

And i want to go into why.

Peace.