Conspiracy deniers

[Estro Felino]

I really wanted to start this thread to analyze from a psychological and psychiatrical point of view, what I consider a very interesting pattern I remarked in certain people.

First of all let us an analyze what Freudian Denial is. Freud used to say that Verneinung (denial) is a self-defense mechanism that some people develop to protect themselves from the evil of this world.

That is, in order to reach a balance made up of confidence and happiness, their brain automatically deletes all the information that can lead to destroy these certainties. That is, that we basically live in a world without evil. And that all people are basically good.

These certainties are absolutely indispensable for the survival of the Self.


So...whenever there is a great amount of evidence that leads that a conspiracy has been ideated and put into action by evil people, they tend to deny the existence of this evidence. But it is not their Self who does that. It is the unconscious Es that removes it from their brain, as a self-defense mechanism.

So...if a carpet is red, they will say it is green, if it is what is needed to deny that important evidence that leads to the conspiracy.

They will ridicule and humiliate all those who bring them the evidence. Calling them conspiracy theorists.

Which is a really desperate attempt, because conspiracies do exist, so it is absolutely necessary to doubt anything, because as DesCartes used to say, the doubt is what makes us rational and objective people. And not people who exclusively rely on their Self to survive.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am a jurist. A law person needs to be cautious and to doubt anything.

A procurator who dismisses anything as conspiracy theory is not doing their job properly.
Because all penal law is by definition about conspiracies and plots described in a code of laws.


Example. A procurator is a conspiracy denier. A police superintendent comes to him, and says: “look, mr procurator. This jeweller had signed an insurance to protect him against robbery. A month ago. What happens a month later? That is now? Some robbers managed to enter mysteriously their jewellery and took everything. The insurance company said they will reimburse him. But I cannot believe this weird coincidence”.
The procurator replies to him : “come on, you see plots everywhere. You are a pitiful conspiracy theorist”:
Turns out the jewellery did organize the robbery.


See?

 

[SomeRandom]

How are we defining conspiracy, specifically?
Because I agree conspiracy is a thing. We even have laws against them.

But when I hear conspiracy I hear the “big ones.” Flat earth, globalists, QAnon, election fraud and well that a certain disease currently infecting millions is actually a hoax.

Yeah you can prove a person is committing or has committed a conspiracy through evidence. How are you going to prove that gravity doesn’t exist?
Or that the moon is actually fake? Or that 5G is actually a mind control technique by the government?
(Yes those are all real conspiracy theories.)

 

[Estro Felino]

How are we defining conspiracy, specifically?
Because I agree conspiracy is a thing. We even have laws against them.

But when I hear conspiracy I hear the “big ones.” Flat earth, globalists, QAnon, election fraud and well that a certain disease currently infecting millions is actually a hoax.

Yeah you can prove a person is committing or has committed a conspiracy through evidence. How are you going to prove that gravity doesn’t exist?
Or that the moon is actually fake? Or that 5G is actually a mind control technique by the government?
(Yes those are all real conspiracy theories.)

When you don't have any evidence, it is a theory.
When there is a great amount of evidence, it is not a theory, but a fact. And then there is denial.
That is they deny the evidence.

I can give you an example. Holocaust deniers are those who deny the evidence of the Holocaust. That kind of denial.

And there are people who deny real conspiracies, even if history books talk about them.

 

[SomeRandom]

When you don't have any evidence, it is a theory.
When there is a great amount of evidence, it is not a theory, but a fact. And then there is denial.
That is they deny the evidence.

I can give you an example. Holocaust deniers are those who deny the evidence of the Holocaust. That kind of denial.

And there are people who deny real conspiracies, even if history books talk about them.

Ahh I see. I think I understand.
A little confession? I’m kind of weirdly fascinated by conspiracy theorists.

Theres a (Twitch) streamer I follow known as Hannahreloaded. They do a stream every Tuesday called “Tin Foil Tuesday” basically reacting to YouTube videos posted by various conspiracy theorists.
I’ve been watching them for a while trying to wrap my head around their way of thinking. But to no avail lol
In saying that I know nothing about psychology
You might get more out of it though.

 

[Estro Felino]

Ahh I see. I think I understand.
A little confession? I’m kind of weirdly fascinated by conspiracy theorists.

Theres a (Twitch) streamer I follow known as Hannahreloaded. They do a stream every Tuesday called “Tin Foil Tuesday” basically reacting to YouTube videos posted by various conspiracy theorists.
I’ve been watching them for a while trying to wrap my head around their way of thinking. But to no avail lol
In saying that I know nothing about psychology
You might get more out of it though.

An example is Seigniorage Banking.
It is labeled as conspiracy, but it is not.
It is a system aboveboard.
It is labeled as theory but it is not.
It is a system in force explained in the macroeconomics books.

 

[SomeRandom]

An example is Seigniorage Banking.
It is labeled as conspiracy, but it is not.
It is a system aboveboard.
It is labeled as theory but it is not.
It is a system in force explained in the macroeconomics books.

Oh. Wow that sounds confusing
Also thanks for teaching me a new term lol

 

[Father Heathen]

Conspiracy theories tend to be rejected precisely because their lack of evidence, logic, and plausibility. Trying to frame critical thinking and objective analysis as problems reeks of a sad, futile desperation to cling to a pitiful, fanciful narrative; that's where the denialism truly lies.

 

[Estro Felino]

Conspiracy theories tend to be rejected precisely because their lack of evidence, logic, and plausibility. Trying to frame critical thinking and objective analysis as problems reeks of a sad, futile desperation to cling to a pitiful, fanciful narrative; that's where the denialism truly lies.

I am speaking of the cases which do present lots of evidence.

JFK's murder, for example.
We have tons of evidence. From the video we see he is shot twice and the bullets come from two opposite directions.
So it is scientifically impossible that the shooter was only one.

 

[Jack11]

I will agree that yes they conspired to commit a crime but it doesn't fit with conspiracy theories.Whether the guy believes it or not is irrelevant.

Your example is conspiracy in a crime which just means more than one person was involved in the planning.

 

[Estro Felino]

I will agree that yes they conspired to commit a crime but it doesn't fit with conspiracy theories.Whether the guy believes it or not is irrelevant.

But if you do not investigate, it will remain a theory.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Many conspiracies do come true. I find modern technology does play fair role in the validation of taking conspiracies more seriously now than in the past.


Basically, it's easier to put the puzzle pieces on the table now to make the actual picture.

 

[Jack11]

Lets look at the definition

conspiracy
1 : a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal The CIA uncovered a conspiracy against the government.
2 : the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal They were accused of conspiracy to commit murder.

conspiracy theory

1. A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.
2. A hypothesis alleging that the members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions including attempting to hide the existence of the group and its activities. In notable cases the hypothesis contradicts the mainstream explanation for historical or current events.
3. Hypothetical speculation that is untrue or outlandish.

 

[wellwisher]

Conspiracy theories tend to be rejected precisely because their lack of evidence, logic, and plausibility. Trying to frame critical thinking and objective analysis as problems reeks of a sad, futile desperation to cling to a pitiful, fanciful narrative; that's where the denialism truly lies.

Does anyone remember the Russian Collusion conspiracy theory. This was an example of members of government starting a conspiracy theory, and using the power of government and connected media propaganda to run the optics. Those who were right, in the end, were called the conspiracy theorists. While those who run the scam were considered the bringers of truth, until the con fell apart.

The next thing that happened were the voting irregularities that were made possible by the Covid plague. These irregularities were also connected to the same people who brought us 3 years of a government funded conspiracy theory. The possible voter fraud was denied and never received any investigation, since it was made taboo to even consider it, by those who ran the collusion con.

Would it be a conspiracy theory to assume that a team that would use government resources to con the public for three years and even break laws, could also break other laws, if it got any with the first con with nobody held accountable?

The original con artists were the first to deny voter fraud and even made it taboo to speak of it; deep denial. It was never investigated in a way to dig deep like a Mueller investigation. This lack of a formal congressional investigation was all based on the word and propaganda of well known con con artists and liars. This is why this conspiracy theory lingers.

The newest conspiracy theory, by the original team of on artists is about the other side taking away voter rights. This is occurring even though the home state of the President; Delaware has stricter voter laws than states like Georgia, that is being used as an example of reduce voter rights? Why do certain conspiracy theories get more play? The answer is if con artist make them, they count for more since con artists will given an extra team effort for optics.

 

[Estro Felino]

Does anyone remember the Russian Collusion conspiracy theory. This was an example of members of government starting a conspiracy theory, and using the power of government and connected media propaganda to run the optics. Those who were right, in the end, were called the conspiracy theorists. While those who run the scam were considered the bringers of truth, until the con fell apart.

The next thing that happened were the voting irregularities that were made possible by the Covid plague. These irregularities were also connected to the same people who brought us 3 years of a government funded conspiracy theory. The possible voter fraud was denied and never received any investigation, since it was made taboo to even consider it, by those who ran the collusion con.

Would it be a conspiracy theory to assume that a team that would use government resources to con the public for three years and even break laws, could also break other laws, if it got any with the first con with nobody held accountable?

The original con artists were the first to deny voter fraud and even made it taboo to speak of it; deep denial. It was never investigated in a way to dig deep like a Mueller investigation. This lack of a formal congressional investigation was all based on the word and propaganda of well known con con artists and liars. This is why this conspiracy theory lingers.

The newest conspiracy theory, by the original team of on artists is about the other side taking away voter rights. This is occurring even though the home state of the President; Delaware has stricter voter laws than states like Georgia, that is being used as an example of reduce voter rights? Why do certain conspiracy theories get more play? The answer is if con artist make them, they count for more since con artists will given an extra team effort for optics.

It has nothing to do with the evidence.
People will believe what they want to believe.

So they will ignore the conspiracies which are based upon undeniable evidence.
Because their brain tells them to delete that information.

And they will believe conspiracies without a shred of evidence. Because they want to believe in that.

 

[Father Heathen]

The possible voter fraud was denied and never received any investigation,

Where have you been? It received countless and thorough investigations which turned up no significant evidence of any sort to suggest some vast, coordinated, convoluted conspiracy to steal the election. Turns out that the American people simply regard a disastrous dumpster fire as a bad thing.

 

[Father Heathen]

It has nothing to do with the evidence.
People will believe what they want to believe.

So they will ignore the conspiracies which are based upon undeniable evidence.
Because their brain tells them to delete that information.

And they will believe conspiracies without a shred of evidence. Because they want to believe in that.

Oh, the irony...
But anyway, care to present some examples of evidence you believe is being disregarded?

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh, the irony...
But anyway, care to present some examples of evidence you believe is being disregarded?

This is a Psychology thread.
I was speaking in general.

 

[Petrus]

Conspiracies, some have a little truth to them but most of them are simply paranoia working over time...Example, most of the conspiracies you read about the Vatican are not true its just some ones paranoia on over time....

 

[Estro Felino]

Conspiracies, some have a little truth to them but most of them are simply paranoia working over time...Example, most of the conspiracies you read about the Vatican are not true its just some ones paranoia on over time....

I do agree with that premise.
Most people in the Vatican are true Christians.
But believing that evil does not exist would imply that crime does not exist. Jails would be empty.

Unfortunately evil comes from money.
From greed.