Contest/Favorite Post

[Lightkeeper]

What is your all time favorite post on this forum? Post it here and we will vote for it. I will give the winner some frubals. It can be someone elses post or yours.

 

[(Q)]

Heres my fave by Dan:

My faith is not based on scientific proof, but I would sooner deny the rising of the sun than I would the actuality of an omniscient, omnipotent God. I know He exists with more conviction than you know you exist. The manner in which I came to this knowledge transcends scientific methods, and there is nothing on this earth, above it or below it that could make me change my mind. All the nomenclature you have the capacity to muster will neither impress me nor sway me. I have witnessed the love of God in all its glory. I have felt things that you will never feel and I know things that you can never know, and I could not care less what science or you have to say about that. My evidence is more concrete than any scientific theory...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This is my favorite post, by (Q). I thought it was so good I saved it to my desktop...the logic behind it is impeccable. One thing I meant to ask: did you write it, (Q), and if not who did?

The post itself is too long to copy and paste here, so here is the link to it--it's the first post on the page by (Q): http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152&page=2&pp=10

 

[Ceridwen018]

I used to believe in free-will, but no longer. Lack of free-will is the first concept I've ever been convinced of by another person. I wasn't convinced by this particular post (I was already a 'believer' by then), but I was convinced by this particular guy. Well done, Mr. Spinkles.

Free will is an illusion in my opinion. Here's why:

1. In order to have free will, there has to exist a "self" that is seperate and free from the laws of the rest of the universe. There is no such "self", there is only cells and molecules, and a bunch of nuerons that think like a computer and generate the illusion of self--we humans obey the laws of the universe just like everything else. To say that we humans have a "self" would be to say that so do dogs, ants, bacteria, self replicating molecules, and matter. If all those things have a "self" then the word loses its initial meaning and it has no bearing on free will any more.

2. Our will is not free. Every time you make a decision, it's because you're brain weighs your desires and comes up with the best solution (to the best of your brain's limited ability) to acheive these wants. The computation is not "free will" because it is dependent on the information your brain is given, its reasoning abilities and the brain's biochemical state--none of which you have any control over (besides, even non-living calculators do computing). And the desires themselves are not free will, because we cannot choose what to desire. So for example, my brain can compute the best way to get food without spending a lot of money, but I can't choose to WANT or NOT WANT to eat and not spend a lot of money in the first place.....that desire has been programmed into me beforehand. I want to eat, and there's nothing I can do about it.

The more I observe human and animal behavior, and how predictable and patterned it is (though complex) the more I realize that we do not have "free will" any more than animals do. And animals no more have "free will" than do lower organisms, self-replicating molecules, and matter.

Here's another way to think about it: when you make a decision, you either A) logically weigh your wants and come up with the best decision or B) flip a coin and choose at random.

If you choose by the B) method, that's not free will, because you're not choosing...you're just behaving in a random sporadic manner in which random chance dictates what you decide. And hypothetical "self" isn't even involved in the decision making process...it's all up to a coin.

If you make a choice by method A), then you're decision is controlled by your brain's intelligence (it's ability to reason etc) and by what your wants are, NEITHER of which you have control over!

Remember....I'm not saying free will doesn't exist, I'm saying it's an illusion. I never said people feel forced to do anything....they obey the laws of nature "will"ingly. (haha)