Conversation Excerpt From Buddy At Work

[Ringer]

So I got to talking with a friend of mine from work who is an ardent Ron Paul supporter. He considers himself a Constitutionalist. We were talking about the Obama health care policy and I asked him what he thought. I was pretty much playing devil's advocate with points that I've seen here on RF that support the new reform. Here is the tyrade that ensued that I thought many would like to comment on. Can you provide me with something juicy to throw back? I'll try to format it so it's legible but you may seem some errors from that. Enjoy!

they are the ones who created lax laws that allowed these companies to lie about the bond values

THEY are the ones who abdicated their consitutional respsonibility to bush about going to war

THEy are the ones who didn't think it was a big deal to NOT watch for or ask for transparency with the FED

dude, your iognorance on the freddie mac and fannie mae thing is killing me...obama pushed the new lending law, it was one of the only bills he ever co sponsored...our very own ron paul fought it tooth and nail in the house and obama and he had a debate about it which you can download from the library of congress

the fact is, this mess we are in was cerated by a bi-partisan of idiots
the left and the right, obama and bush, all the goofs we see who are now making even bigger mistakes than beforebecause they are morons

congress had a chance to stop the illegal bond rating system but did nothing

congress could have told bush no to a war in iraq - in fact, that's one of their two main respinsibilities....they didn't

congress could have stopped stealing from medi care
they didn't

they could have kept their filthy hands off of social security - they didn't

they could have gone after industry who use and abuse illegals making them work for nothing so they can get rich while simultaenously undermining the very human labor laws that they enacted almost a hundred years ago and obama's answer to all this is to print more money, which raises inflation, creates stagflation, and prmoise everything to anyone and keep making the shrinking middle class pay for all of it through higher taxes while also letting indusry and jobs flee overseas where they can continue to exploit humans with low wages and no benefits

******* CONTINUED ********

the left is stupid evil...the right is just plain evil and knows it

dude, taxes WILL increase as soon as everyone goes "holy ****, he keeps printing more money and now it costs 6 bucks for white bread"
inflation wasn't temporary in the 70's homey

took 9 years to get rid of it..fiscal tightening of the belt
infaltion wasn't a temporary side effect in the weimar republic
or any other nation whose unemployment reached more than 15%
whcih we are rapidly approaching
america was the only country in modern history to survie, more or less, intact fro the great depression
and look what it did to us...without WW II we would still be recovering
look, the system we have needs remodeling
healthcare I eman
going to a system that was created by an entirely different social order which does not deal with any of the things our order does is madness
the old saying, you're comparing apples to oranges...just because they are both types of fruit, josh, does not mean that they need the same soil ph, the same amount of water and sun, or that you can necessarily harvest them atthe same time or in the same areas
the same goes here
if everyone loves canadas system so much I ask you again, WHY DO THEY COME DOWN HERE FOR THEIR MOST CRITICAL PROCEDURES?
why?
it costs moer
so why do they do it
what would compel them to do this
supposedly, it costs more and the quality of the service is less
but, they can go tomorrow if they want to
so, they can wait 3 years for the new heart transplant and hope they make it but have the smug satisfaction of knowing they paud 4k less if they live that long, or they can get iot tomorrow and pay 4k more and hug their kids for the next 20 years
starting tomorrow
hmmm
I geuss all the liberals are ok with the lottery approach and waiting until they are told they can go
good for them..move then
me? I like talking to a medical professional about what's wrong with me and then doing what they suggest...now
not next year...now

 

[Vile Atheist]

if everyone loves canadas system so much I ask you again, WHY DO THEY COME DOWN HERE FOR THEIR MOST CRITICAL PROCEDURES?
why?
it costs moer
so why do they do it
what would compel them to do this
supposedly, it costs more and the quality of the service is less
but, they can go tomorrow if they want to
so, they can wait 3 years for the new heart transplant and hope they make it but have the smug satisfaction of knowing they paud 4k less if they live that long, or they can get iot tomorrow and pay 4k more and hug their kids for the next 20 years
starting tomorrow
hmmm
I geuss all the liberals are ok with the lottery approach and waiting until they are told they can go
good for them..move then
me? I like talking to a medical professional about what's wrong with me and then doing what they suggest...now
not next year...now

Canada has something called "triage". Let's say you and I arrive at the hospital emergency room at the same time. You have a bad tummy ache. My arm is severed off. Triage would ensure that I would get looked after first because my situation is more dire.

In Canada, the only things you wait for are minor procedures that do not have to be done immediately. If you require emergency treatment, you get it. If you have something that can wait. You wait. And wait times depend on how well your province manages the healthcare and other factors. But usually long waiting times (while they do happen) aren't as common as they are painted to be in the US by money-grubbing politicians.

And Canadians go to the US a lot of the times for procedures that do not require to be performed immediately. My father once had to go to Duluth, Minnesota to get an MRI. And we went to Duluth more out of convenience than anything. The nearest MRI machines in Canada would be in Winnipeg, 8-9 hours away by car, versus only a few to Duluth.

The US does have better quality care. Be proud of yourselves. Your government refuses to give that quality care to its most needy citizens. And yet, with our dirty Socialist system that according to sleazy US politicians - a system that according to them is doomed to fail and has innumerable hinderances - Canadians are extremely happy with their healthcare.

 

[Alceste]

The percentage of Canadians who have received health care in the US is 0.5%, and a quarter of those were already there for other reasons. 0.125 % strikes me as statistically insignificant, considering the fact that the number is more than offset by Americans coming here for their drugs. (Prescriptions too )

I don't really disagree with your friend's comments on economic policy and the bi-partisan buffoonery of both America's political parties, but he clearly knows nothing at all about Canadian Health Care. For someone so savvy about the Big Lie in general (which usually requires some media analysis and critical thinking), he certainly has a blind spot there.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not an admirer of Ron Paul, but I don't find him nearly as scary as his fans.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not an admirer of Ron Paul, but I don't find him nearly as scary as his fans.

I actually find them kind of cute, in an unintentionally hilarious kind of a way.

YouTube - RON PAUL IS A VIRUS - ORIGINAL SONG AND MUSIC VIDEO

 

[Vile Atheist]

Sometimes I'm absolutely amazed looking at the American media to see just how much ******** is floating around with regards to the Canadian health care system.

 

[Alceste]

Sometimes I'm absolutely amazed looking at the American media to see just how much ******** is floating around with regards to the Canadian health care system.

No kidding! Not just us, either. England is seriously ****** off at them right now.

 

[Vile Atheist]

No kidding! Not just us, either. England is seriously ****** off at them right now.

And it's not as if some random irrelevant person is holding these views. These are politicians and popular media figures that spout blatant falsehoods.

 

[TheKnight]

It's a shame, but the media controls public opinion in our country. And, most of it is just plain stupid.

The saddest part is when you try to educate people about the truth (God forbid the news should be wrong about the truth) they call you an insane conspiracy theorist and write you off as a "potential terrorist".

Maybe it's better in other places, but here in California, the media says jump and the people say how high.

I think the worst thing is the bias against law enforcement. I personally know how fuc&ed up that is. Law enforcement is portrayed as the bad guy here. As the mean racist a/hole who's job is to ruin your day. If only people could see the truth. But then again, God forbid the truth contradict good Ol' Bill O'reilly. "If the news is wrong then I don't wanna be right"~Typical attitude of your average American idiot.

 

[kai]

Canada has something called "triage". Let's say you and I arrive at the hospital emergency room at the same time. You have a bad tummy ache. My arm is severed off. Triage would ensure that I would get looked after first because my situation is more dire.

In Canada, the only things you wait for are minor procedures that do not have to be done immediately. If you require emergency treatment, you get it. If you have something that can wait. You wait. And wait times depend on how well your province manages the healthcare and other factors. But usually long waiting times (while they do happen) aren't as common as they are painted to be in the US by money-grubbing politicians.

And Canadians go to the US a lot of the times for procedures that do not require to be performed immediately. My father once had to go to Duluth, Minnesota to get an MRI. And we went to Duluth more out of convenience than anything. The nearest MRI machines in Canada would be in Winnipeg, 8-9 hours away by car, versus only a few to Duluth.

The US does have better quality care. Be proud of yourselves. Your government refuses to give that quality care to its most needy citizens. And yet, with our dirty Socialist system that according to sleazy US politicians - a system that according to them is doomed to fail and has innumerable hinderances - Canadians are extremely happy with their healthcare.
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we have a similar system in the UK. I was a little confused at the way our health service has been portrayed in the US lateley.

 

[monta]

we have a similar system in the UK. I was a little confused at the way our health service has been portrayed in the US lateley.

I think the push is on in some camps in the US to portray socialised medicine in a bad light.

 

[rojse]

So I got to talking with a friend of mine from work who is an ardent Ron Paul supporter. He considers himself a Constitutionalist. We were talking about the Obama health care policy and I asked him what he thought. I was pretty much playing devil's advocate with points that I've seen here on RF that support the new reform. Here is the tyrade that ensued that I thought many would like to comment on. Can you provide me with something juicy to throw back? I'll try to format it so it's legible but you may seem some errors from that. Enjoy!

You have learnt much from your time here, young Skywalker.

 

[rojse]

I think the push is on in some camps in the US to portray socialised medicine in a bad light.

It's not blatantly obvious?

 

[Alceste]

we have a similar system in the UK. I was a little confused at the way our health service has been portrayed in the US lateley.

You would say that, you death-squad tolerating, health care rationing hater of the elderly.

 

[DadBurnett]

There's an old saying, Consider the source ...
There are those who assert one thing or another out of ignorance, spouting other people's truths. Haveing spent time in Canada and discussing the situation with mniddle-class Canadians, I find their experiences are grossly misrepresented.
About those who so strongly resist change, I wonder who they are getting their information from - from those sources who seek to preserve the status quo (like some in the nedical and pharma industries) because it all works best for them. Those who advocate change are no less guilty of speaking out primarily to support their own agenda.
It seems that those we hear mopst from are the extremeists on both sides. We need to figure out how to see beyond all the smoke and mirrors and find the middle path ...

 

[kai]

You would say that, you death-squad tolerating, health care rationing hater of the elderly.

you know me so well.

 

[Vile Atheist]

There's an old saying, Consider the source ...
There are those who assert one thing or another out of ignorance, spouting other people's truths. Haveing spent time in Canada and discussing the situation with mniddle-class Canadians, I find their experiences are grossly misrepresented.
About those who so strongly resist change, I wonder who they are getting their information from - from those sources who seek to preserve the status quo (like some in the nedical and pharma industries) because it all works best for them. Those who advocate change are no less guilty of speaking out primarily to support their own agenda.
It seems that those we hear mopst from are the extremeists on both sides. We need to figure out how to see beyond all the smoke and mirrors and find the middle path ...

I've noticed that pretty much all the "evidence" presented by those who oppose health care in the States, is either all anecdotal ("I have a friend who lived in Canada for a year and had to wait a decade in the emergency room as her kidneys slowly seeped out of her eyes...but this wouldn't happen in the US!!!!!")...or it's some BS statistic on waiting times, as if waiting times are enough justification to deny 40-50 million Americans healthcare when they can't otherwise afford it.

The only explanation for such strong opposition to this is pressure from insurance companies on politicians.

There isn't really a "middle path", here. Not when one side has the health of people in mind, and the other is blinded by filthy greed.

 

[Alceste]

I've noticed that pretty much all the "evidence" presented by those who oppose health care in the States, is either all anecdotal ("I have a friend who lived in Canada for a year and had to wait a decade in the emergency room as her kidneys slowly seeped out of her eyes...but this wouldn't happen in the US!!!!!")...or it's some BS statistic on waiting times, as if waiting times are enough justification to deny 40-50 million Americans healthcare when they can't otherwise afford it.

The only explanation for such strong opposition to this is pressure from insurance companies on politicians.

There isn't really a "middle path", here. Not when one side has the health of people in mind, and the other is blinded by filthy greed.

Well grokked. The fact is that universal public health insurance is wildly effective compared to an "every man for himself" capitalistic health model. (Well, I should say compared to America, since that's the only one.) If a person wants to make an argument against it, they have no choice but to cherry pick disturbing anecdotes and make relatively non-critical issues where our performance is worse than in the US look disproportionately important. (Wait times). Or, they could be honest and say profits are the only issue they are concerned about, not public health, in which case it's quite easy to demonstrate American system leaves us all miles behind. Can't tell the truth in the propaganda business though. Got to appeal to emotions.

With respect to wait times, I wonder how the US system would compare to the rest of the world if their calculations of wait times included the 5 million people who wait forever, and never receive any health care. Our models generally count the time from first consultation to final treatment. Kind of doesn't leave any room for people who can't afford a "first consultation" to begin with, let alone a final treatment.

 

[Ringer]

I am glad to see my usual dead thread has been resurrected.