Cops....Bullies With Anger Issues & Impunity

[Pogo]

One small way is to vote for candidates
who are strong on civil liberties. Problem
is that Dems & Pubs are seldom that way.
Biden, the architect of civil forfeiture, is
terrible. Trump is worse.
I'm voting Libertarian this year.

And even as a Libertarian I am wary of voting for them.
Let's get some ranked choice voting going so we can actually make a useful statement.

 

[Revoltingest]

And even as a Libertarian I am wary of voting for them.
Let's get some ranked choice voting going so we can actually make a useful statement.

Voting Libertarian is a long term
investment. But I refuse to vote
for Genocide Joe, even though
he is the lesser evil.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Arguing on this forum is my plan.
(Think of it as awareness raising,
which might could possibly spread.)
I blather about elsewhere too.

sounds good.

A thought came to my poor head. If you're interested in bringing this to people's attention my thinking is that you'd have to show a lot more than a half dozen cases of bad cops. Like, there are about a million cops in the U.S. alone w/ about 30 million world wide. Even if you showed hundreds, even thousands of cases of bad cops we're still only talking about a fraction of a percent --leaving 99.6% of cops as "good", or at least "not bad".

OK, so a bad cop's in a position to do a lot of harm but the same could be said about a bad doctor or a bad soldier. Perfection is not possible in this world and most folks will be willing to settle for a mere 99.6%.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Well it appears to be more than you might be doing?

must be, I'm doing other things before I work on the new things.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

OK, so a bad cop's in a position to do a lot of harm but the same could be said about a bad doctor or a bad soldier. Perfection is not possible in this world and most folks will be willing to settle for a mere 99.6%.

Doctors have external regulations and regulators to answer for, they have revokable licesnces, there is malpractice insurance and the possibility of being accused of malpractice. Doctors are held to way higher standards.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Perhaps you're "doomscrolling". That can make one
feel ennui & resignation. We're making progress
precisely because all of these articles, videos, & suits
are made known. It's improvement. Before ubiquitous
cel phones & surveillance cameras, such abuses by
cops were covered up.
Remember that the problems used to be even worse.
The difference is that now we're more aware of them.

Its actually an eternal struggle with ups and downs throughout national History, and sometimes the citizenry is protected. Sometimes the police get to behave like mafia. Before the police there were the firemen, and they did the policing and they had their ups and downs, too.

The police are always given every dam cleanup job (which they shouldn't be), and they are always the alternative to joining the military. First of all every bit of crap that the town or city doesn't have anyone else to do the police must do, and they are always underfunded unless they begin to steal (which sometimes they do because they are underfunded). On top of that they have to hire the kids that want to see action, because its perceived to be a deadly job. Its no secret that there are always a percentage of young men that want to see action and consider: marines or police? So here is your recipe for a brute squad upholding the bottom of society, and don't they think that without them there would be no nice, kind patriotic society above them. They do, because they see the problems that most people don't want to see.

So it is that we are becoming aware of problems with the police, yet the emphasis has not resulted in the necessary conditions: better funding, better education, wider hiring net, more specific jobs. Instead we are just aware that cops are brutal. That they are, and they are all we've got.

 

[Revoltingest]

....you'd have to show a lot more than a half dozen cases of bad cops.

Good idea.
That's why I've posted many dozens.

Like, there are about a million cops in the U.S. alone w/ about 30 million world wide. Even if you showed hundreds, even thousands of cases of bad cops we're still only talking about a fraction of a percent --leaving 99.6% of cops as "good", or at least "not bad".

You're looking at it all wrong.
If you survey cases of cops acting illegally, you'll observe
that bad cops almost always get support from fellow
cops, eg, falsifying reports, turning off body cams,
failure to act to stop the illegal behavior, support
from supervisors.
The bad cops aren't just the ones committing the
crime....they're also the ones who enable the bad cops.

OK, so a bad cop's in a position to do a lot of harm but the same could be said about a bad doctor or a bad soldier. Perfection is not possible in this world and most folks will be willing to settle for a mere 99.6%.

To argue that perfection is impossible
doesn't support opposition to major
improvement.

 

[Revoltingest]

The police are always given every dam cleanup job (which they shouldn't be).....

Aye, it's clear that cops are given many
jobs they aren't trained for, eg, someone
in need of mental health care suffers when
the responder is trained to arrest & shoot.

....and they are always underfunded unless they begin to steal (which sometimes they do because they are underfunded).

Many cops get great pay.
To what extent do you see cops so poorly
paid that they must resort to crime?

On top of that they have to hire the kids that want to see action, because its perceived to be a deadly job. Its no secret that there are always a percentage of young men that want to see action and consider: marines or police? So here is your recipe for a brute squad upholding the bottom of society, and don't they think that without them there would be no nice, kind patriotic society above them. They do, because they see the problems that most people don't want to see.

So it is that we are becoming aware of problems with the police, yet the emphasis has not resulted in the necessary conditions: better funding, better education, wider hiring net, more specific jobs. Instead we are just aware that cops are brutal. That they are, and they are all we've got.

There's no major reform effort yet underway.
I expect that positive change will be very slow.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Doctors have external regulations and regulators to answer for, they have revokable licesnces, there is malpractice insurance and the possibility of being accused of malpractice. Doctors are held to way higher standards.

Feelings are wonderful, my feeling is that we don't have the hard numbers here on how many bad doctors/good doctors there are just like it's hard to say how many good cops/bad cops we got. Someone else can come in here and "feel" that cops are better behaved than doctors, and you can feel that the opposite is true.

Mean while, the main issue that I was discussing w/ Revoltingest was...

...you'd have to show a lot more than a half dozen cases of bad cops. Like, there are about a million cops in the U.S. alone w/ about 30 million world wide. Even if you showed hundreds, even thousands of cases of bad cops we're still only talking about a fraction of a percent --leaving 99.6% of cops as "good", or at least "not bad"... ...most folks will be willing to settle for a mere 99.6%.

--and I still see that as a valid point.

 

[Pete in Panama]

...I've posted many dozens...

--and as I said, even if you were to post thousands of cases we'd still be just talking about a fraction of a percent of the 30 million cops in the wold.

...If you survey cases of cops acting illegally, you'll observe
that bad cops almost always get support from fellow
cops, eg, falsifying reports, turning off body cams,
failure to act to stop the illegal behavior, support
from supervisors.
The bad cops aren't just the ones committing the
crime....they're also the ones who enable the bad cops....

When we have the survey you mentioned then we can discuss it.

...To argue that perfection is impossible
doesn't support opposition to major
improvement.

Agreed. We can come together on the two facts that perfection is not possible and that it's a bad idea to oppose improvement.

 

[Revoltingest]

--and I still see that as a valid point.

The sampling of bad cops in the news isn't about
just the cop committing the crime in each instance.
Notice that in most of those cases, there are other
cops enabling the bad cop. This points to a double
digit percentage of cops being either the perps or
the enabler. I see both as bad cops. I speculate
that over 50% are enablers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Feelings are wonderful, my feeling is that we don't have the hard numbers here on how many bad doctors/good doctors there are just like it's hard to say how many good cops/bad cops we got. Someone else can come in here and "feel" that cops are better behaved than doctors, and you can feel that the opposite is true.

Those weren't feelings. It's a fact medical providers are held to higher and more rigid standards than cops.

 

[Revoltingest]

--and as I said, even if you were to post thousands of cases we'd still be just talking about a fraction of a percent of the 30 million cops in the wold.


When we have the survey you mentioned then we can discuss it.

My survey is my own searching news sources.
I'm not proving anything. Just discussing &
advocating.
The insight is watching how all the cops &
their superiors behave in youtube videos.
This is the only news source offering this
keen perspective.

Agreed. We can come together on the two facts that perfection is not possible and that it's a bad idea to oppose improvement.

Woohoo!
It's like we share one brain.

 

[Pete in Panama]

My survey is my own searching news sources.
I'm not proving anything. Just discussing &
advocating.
The insight is watching how all the cops &
their superiors behave in youtube videos.
This is the only news source offering this
keen perspective.

That's how most folks do their thinking, for me I somehow see that route as being hard to communicate. It's not an observation that can be shared as different people can look at different news sources and come to other conclusions. Add to the mix that most reporters and pundits have an agenda & that leaves u w/ picking through till we find the source that agree w/ what we've already decided.

Fine for one's own thoughts, hard to communicate w/ others.

The sampling of bad cops in the news isn't about
just the cop committing the crime in each instance.
Notice that in most of those cases, there are other
cops enabling the bad cop. This points to a double
digit percentage of cops being either the perps or
the enabler. I see both as bad cops. I speculate
that over 50% are enablers.

Sure, there's some truth to that but one problem we get is the fact there's more than one truth at play here and another problem is that different folks will have different experiences. Are you aware that while a lot of cops get along and stick up for each other there are also a lot of cops that don't get along and it's possible to have conflicting factions?

 

[Pete in Panama]

Those weren't feelings. It's a fact medical providers are held to higher and more rigid standards than cops.

Maybe our problem here is that you and I have different meanings of the words "fact" and "feeling". What I was going w/ is that I was equating "fact" w/ something that could be clearly observed and shared, and I equated "feeling" w/ the mass of unshared experiences that folks bring to the table. My guess is that you've seen a lot of things that you haven't shared here yet, and I've seen & heard other things. We could share or we can leave it w/ your saying I'm wrong --your call.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe our problem here is that you and I have different meanings of the words "fact" and "feeling". What I was going w/ is that I was equating "fact" w/ something that could be clearly observed and shared, and I equated "feeling" w/ the mass of unshared experiences that folks bring to the table. My guess is that you've seen a lot of things that you haven't shared here yet, and I've seen & heard other things. We could share or we can leave it w/ your saying I'm wrong --your call.

There are zero feelings involved in pointing out doctors are legally amd ethically held to far greater standards than cops. That's not a feeling. That's a fact. Quit trying to dodge it.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's how most folks do their thinking, for me I somehow see that route as being hard to communicate. It's not an observation that can be shared as different people can look at different news sources and come to other conclusions. Add to the mix that most reporters and pundits have an agenda & that leaves u w/ picking through till we find the source that agree w/ what we've already decided.

This is why people should rely upon
me for what they should know & believe.

Sure, there's some truth to that but one problem we get is the fact there's more than one truth at play here and another problem is that different folks will have different experiences. Are you aware that while a lot of cops get along and stick up for each other there are also a lot of cops that don't get along and it's possible to have conflicting factions?

While there are some good cops who will intervene
to stop misfeasance & malfeasance, news, especially
videos of the interaction show that this is uncommon.
I even started a thread about good cops.

Good Cop Won't Obey Illegal Orders From Captain

Cop finds drunk driver is a captain. Captain wants cop to turn off his body camera. Cop refuses, & arrests drunken captain. Corrupt captain doesn't lose his job. Continues on the job with full pay. Let's hope there's no retaliation against one of the few good cops in a department run by a...

www.religiousforums.com

But....

Good Cops Are Driven From The Force

Joe Crystal was threatened & harassed by his entire department for reporting illegal assault on a handcuffed arrestee. In such places, there aren't any good cops. They're driven away. And Baltimore is a large city, which points to police being a large well organized criminal enterprise.

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Pete in Panama]

....Quit trying to dodge it.

That's actually a pretty good idea. It's been fun & my hope is that we'll interact again here sometime, Cheers!

 

[Pete in Panama]

This is why people should rely upon
me for what they should know & believe....

You say they 'should". Do they?

 

[Revoltingest]

You say they 'should". Do they?

Far too few.