Core Axioms of Judaism

[prometheuspan]

What are the Core Axioms of;

1. Pre Abrahamic Judaism

2. Post Abrhamic Judaism

3. Pre Christian Judaism

4. Post Roman Judaism

5. Modern Judaism

And what axioms have changed or evolved over time and how?

 

[Levite]

Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "core axioms?"

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I can answer a little, I know some things about Judaism. Prior to the Sinai Covenant, there was the covenant of Noah, given after the flood in Genesis. So there was Noahidism before Sinai. That's all I can tell you for now.

 

[xkatz]

One of the biggest changes in Judaism IMO, is the shift from the priestly class (Cohen) being the clerics, to the Rabbis being the clerics. As to how, I am not quite sure, although it has been gradual and was happening even at the time of Jesus I believe.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

One of the biggest changes in Judaism IMO, is the shift from the priestly class (Cohen) being the clerics, to the Rabbis being the clerics. As to how, I am not quite sure, although it has been gradual and was happening even at the time of Jesus I believe.

Oh I can tell you the answer to that. The Rabbis are what's called the "elders" in the Torah, the class that teaches the people. The Rabbis were not new at the time of Jesus. When the Priestly class (the Sadducees) was killed off, Judaism had only the Rabbis (elders) left. In the time of Jesus the Priests and elders had gone their seperate ways into differing sects- the Sadducees and the Pharisees.

 

[prometheuspan]

a core axiom is one of say 100 or 100 propositions or simple statements which compose the heart of the system.

This is a socratic method process, i already have answers.

A few core axioms to start;

1. There is an infinite unknowable God.
2. That God chose the jews/ hebrews specifically above all other people.
3. You should chop the foreskin off of infant boys.

An axiom can be expressed in different ways and the way it is expressed can have a significant impact on the truth value.

Thats a hint for those who are pro judaism. You want to frame those axioms in words which allow the axiom to either be true or at least not provably false.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Prometheus I'm not pro-Judaism persay, I just happen to know about it due to my Jewish ancestry. I'm secular

 

[prometheuspan]

kewl. I'm eclectic interfaith and shamanic atheist except for on pagan holidays when I'm wiccan and assorted other scheduled intervals where i go whole hog into just one religion for 6 or 8 hours...
(lol)

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Prometheus if you haven't noticed- I'm pretty ecclectic myself

 

[prometheuspan]

yes. i like that about you.. us..

 

[Levite]

a core axiom is one of say 100 or 100 propositions or simple statements which compose the heart of the system.

This is a socratic method process, i already have answers.

A few core axioms to start;

1. There is an infinite unknowable God.
2. That God chose the jews/ hebrews specifically above all other people.
3. You should chop the foreskin off of infant boys.

An axiom can be expressed in different ways and the way it is expressed can have a significant impact on the truth value.

Thats a hint for those who are pro judaism. You want to frame those axioms in words which allow the axiom to either be true or at least not provably false.

Hmmm.... I don't know if I could make a full list. But off the top of my head, here are the top of the list.

1. The is One God, Eternal, who alone made everything that ever has existed or will exist.
2. This God revealed Himself [I use an arbitrary gender designation though God has no gender] to the earliest Jews, taught them not to worship natural phenomena or manmade objects, and raised them up from "slavery" (literal or metaphorical) to be "free" (again, either literal or metaphorical).
3. The Jewish People and the One God have an eternal and unbreakable covenant between them, wherein each party is uniquely special to the other. (This unique special bond, depending on one's interpretations of the tradition, does not necessarily specify exclusivity on the part of God, who is Infinite, and may hold other covenants of different, special uniqueness with other peoples.)
4. Torah (in the broadest sense of that term, encompassing all Written and Oral Torah) represents the actualization of the covenant, wherein the Jewish People understand their history to be inextricably interwoven with our experiences with God, and our laws and other rules represent our best attempts to frame our society with what we believe to be the ways in which God wishes us to be just, compassionate, and faithful.

My guess is that many Jews might quibble with my wording, but few practicing Jews would object to the essential core of the axioms above.

I can't think of other such axioms that would be as universally accepted and accurate for all current and historical forms of Rabbinic Judaism. But there are many others that are and have been accepted by many though not all. Those would take too long to list in full.

 

[prometheuspan]

I can't think of other such axioms that would be as universally accepted and accurate for all current and historical forms of Rabbinic Judaism. But there are many others that are and have been accepted by many though not all. Those would take too long to list in full.

The idea here is to make a strong and more detailed partial list and then watch as things shift over time.

We need at least enough axioms to show those differences.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The idea here is to make a strong and more detailed partial list and then watch as things shift over time.

The idea here is to ask honest questions of a group rather than posture as socratic pedant.

 

[prometheuspan]

The idea here is to ask honest questions of a group rather than posture as socratic pedant.

I'm sincerely interested in this line of questioning and the answers which we have yet to arrive at.

I have aspergers syndrome so I am just going to try to defuse what seems like somebody elses imagined conflict by pointing out why i would be asking these questions at this
time.

I am the new research coordinator of RBEF and i would like to see them have a positive interfaith dialog which empowers them to take clients from any religious background instead of always alienating religious people like the group that they splintered away from.

I'm interested in the depth list of axioms and will in any case be generating that list
myself for my own purposes.

I am an experienced interfaith dialog peace maker and the point of this is to find a way to
get everyone past arguing and focused on working together in my open source collaborative work environment.

Religions

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am an experienced interfaith dialog peace maker and the point of this is to find a way to get everyone past arguing and focused on working together in my open source collaborative work environment.

And the point of this particular forum is not for you to presume to process us.

 

[prometheuspan]

And the point of this particular forum is not for you to presume to process us.

inversely, if you choose to be paranoid delusional and thus confrontational, thats your choice emanating from your ego/id conflict, and has nothing to do with me.


I will again repeat, I'm sincere and my questions are on topic and legit in this forum.

I hope to have a serious and sincere conversation in answer to the socratic method.

If you don't want to be "processed" then don't participate.

Otherwise, all you are really doing at this point is gate keeping and trying to prevent me
from having my thread.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

What you need to know Prometheus- Judaism is built on three facets, in my opinion. The Mishnah, the written Torah, and the Rabbis and synagogue system.

 

[prometheuspan]

The Mishna, the Tanakh, the Torah, The Talmud.. are fascinating..

What can we take away as primary axioms from each? This being particularly difficult with the Talmud ...

Also, how do you view Qaballah?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Prometheus there's a mixed opinion of Kabbalah in Judaism. Some Jews believe it authentic, some dismiss it as a Middle Ages invention. The Talmud is comprised of two things- the Mishnah and the Gemara. The Mishnah is the oral tradition said to have come down from Sinai, which the written Torah is also considered to have originally been a part of. The Gemara is mostly commentary of the Rabbis, but it's also other things.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Otherwise, all you are really doing at this point is gate keeping and trying to prevent me from having my thread.

Poor baby ... :sad4: