Creation vs evolution

[Subduction Zone]

The question is: why should we say that it all needs to be read literally? For instance, the Bible has poetry. I don’t see why it must be taken literally when it seems to be speaking figuratively.

I don't have much of a problem with Christians that realize much of the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. I have a problem with those that deny reality by insisting Genesis must be taken literally, but when they run into a part that they know fails if one reads it literally, such as the terribly failed "Tyre prophecy" then all of a sudden they decide to no longer read it literally. They can't be consistent in their beliefs because they know that their beliefs fail if they do so.

 

[ChristineM]

Faithofchristian

??? Your comment didn't show up so not sure if you actually wrote anything

 

[ChristineM]

Curious: why think these are physically impossible? Presumably, God created the physical universe and thus presumably could rearrange molecules, etc. For instance, why think it’s physically impossible for Jesus to rise from the dead? It seems like you’d need to assume that God doesn’t exist or that that type of thing couldn’t happen. But if God exists, it could...right? In other words, if our world is one where there is a God that created everything, then it’s not a stretch to think that he could intervene in these ways.

I’m not saying I believe everything literally happened as the Bible records. But, to say it’s physically impossible can only be said if you assume at the outset that our world is not one where God exists—which might be question begging.

A&E, genetically impossible as described in the Bible, genetic Adam and genetic Eve lived around 120k years apart
Ark, impossible to build, even with today's technology, logically impossible, no flood record record in racial memory or geologically.
Walking on water, try it.
Return from the dead, see above
To claim god magic you need to provide evidence.

No assumption in god not existing, there is no evidence, on the contrary, the assumption is all yours.

You said and i quote "Every claim in the Bible has been verified." Are you now withdrawing that claim?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I’m a little worried that your argument is circular. It seems like you are saying: the Bible’s claims are verified because the Bible says so. This begs the question because you are assuming your position is true in order to make your case for your position.

I’m also not clear as what it means to say that the Bible is ‘verified’. Which parts are verified in your thinking?

That's absolutely right, the whole bible in it's self does verify it's self.

For instance the Bible verifies by Prophecy that there shall come mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lust, These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lust, their mouths speaking great swelling words, But these speak evil of those things, which they have no knowledge about.

All this Prophecy that was given a little over 2000 years ago, is now coming to it's fulfillment.

Therefore you have bible Prophecy given verifying the bible to be true.

 

[Faithofchristian]

How can the Bible verify Christ returning again when he (presumably) hasn’t returned yet?

Because the bible is giving for warning in Prophecy about Christ returns. How and when Christ return happens.

Take the weather people, that gives the weather 3 days or more in advance.

Here we find within the pages of the Bible giving warnings in Prophecy about Christ return. But thousand of years in advance.

And everything given in Prophecy to show everything that is to happen that will lead up to the return of Christ.

And everything that was giving in Prophecy of a little over 2000 years ago, Before the return of Christ, is now coming to it's fulfillment.

 

[jmt09]

I don't have much of a problem with Christians that realize much of the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. I have a problem with those that deny reality by insisting Genesis must be taken literally, but when they run into a part that they know fails if one reads it literally, such as the terribly failed "Tyre prophecy" then all of a sudden they decide to no longer read it literally. They can't be consistent in their beliefs because they know that their beliefs fail if they do so.

I understand now...thanks for clarifying. Yes, I would agree with that. It seems to me (a Christian...though I may need to take time and qualify what I mean by this...) that Genesis 1-2 are more akin to poetry. I don’t think it reads like someone trying to say “this is how the world was created”. It isn’t trying to give us the mechanism that God used to create it.

 

[jmt09]

Because the bible is giving for warning in Prophecy about Christ returns. How and when Christ return happens.

Take the weather people, that gives the weather 3 days or more in advance.

Here we find within the pages of the Bible giving warnings in Prophecy about Christ return. But thousand of years in advance.

And everything given in Prophecy to show everything that is to happen that will lead up to the return of Christ.

And everything that was giving in Prophecy of a little over 2000 years ago, Before the return of Christ, is now coming to it's fulfillment.

I’m not sure the weather analogy works. Weather predictors would not claim to verify that in, say, three days it’s going to rain. Maybe the term ‘verify’ is not the right term to use when talking about prophecy.

I think the fundamental issue though is that when you are talking to someone that doesn’t believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, it’s counterproductive to assume that it is to make your arguments. This won’t convince/persuade a skeptic.

 

[`mud]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........I read that in the Bible...
you don't know anything like that !
It says right in the front of the beginning there what God said...
When He put a man and a woman on earth..to multiply..
Like that right there is written...
Cheeeeessooooowwaaaaaay...listen to me !!!

 

[Faithofchristian]

I’m not sure the weather analogy works. Weather predictors would not claim to verify that in, say, three days it’s going to rain. Maybe the term ‘verify’ is not the right term to use when talking about prophecy.

I think the fundamental issue though is that when you are talking to someone that doesn’t believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, it’s counterproductive to assume that it is to make your arguments. This won’t convince/persuade a skeptic.

No but the weather people are giving the weather 3 days or more in advance.

The analogy is, that Prophecies that were given a little over 2000 years ago, some Prophecies go back a little further than 2000 years ago, are now coming to be fulfilled and some are still to be fulfilled in the future from us yet.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand now...thanks for clarifying. Yes, I would agree with that. It seems to me (a Christian...though I may need to take time and qualify what I mean by this...) that Genesis 1-2 are more akin to poetry. I don’t think it reads like someone trying to say “this is how the world was created”. It isn’t trying to give us the mechanism that God used to create it.

Then according to Faihtofchristain you are not a "True Christian". I disagree strongly on that claim of his. He seems to think that one has to take Genesis literally to be a Christian, I know that is not the case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

??? Your comment didn't show up so not sure if you actually wrote anything

He messed up the QUOTE function. Are you on a pho ne? On my laptop one can expand the light area of his quote and see his reply. But to save you the effort I did a copy and paste. Here is his reply:

"Look God uses things such animals and insects to represent things.

God is hopeing that people will have enough smarts and common sense, to know there is no men on horses with fire and smoke and brimstone coming out of their mouths.

God uses animals and insects to represent other things.

Look in the book of Revelation, you will find the Locust army.
Have you ever seen Locust coming across an open field, they are so thick, that from a distance they look like a big dark cloud that you can't see thru because of the Locust being so thick.
The Locust army represent a human military that from a distance these men are so thick.moving across an open field like Locust do. So the Locust army is not real Locust insects, but a Military of men. Moving like Locust do. Across land."

In other words, when the Bible has totally ridiculous claims in it such as men on horse with fire, a worldwide flood, people coming from only two individuals it is not meant to be taken literally . . . What? Not the last two claims? But those are just as ridiculous as the earlier one and as Faithofchristian said:


"God is hopeing that people will have enough smarts and common sense, to know there is no" worldwide flood.

I wonder if he can see how he is being inconsistent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because the bible is giving for warning in Prophecy about Christ returns. How and when Christ return happens.

Take the weather people, that gives the weather 3 days or more in advance.

Here we find within the pages of the Bible giving warnings in Prophecy about Christ return. But thousand of years in advance.

And everything given in Prophecy to show everything that is to happen that will lead up to the return of Christ.

And everything that was giving in Prophecy of a little over 2000 years ago, Before the return of Christ, is now coming to it's fulfillment.

Except for the most important part about Christ actually returning. Still waiting for that bit to happen.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Except for the most important part about Christ actually returning. Still waiting for that bit to happen.

Wasn't that supposed to have happened while at least some fo the apostles were still alive?

 

[ChristineM]

He messed up the QUOTE function. Are you on a pho ne? On my laptop one can expand the light area of his quote and see his reply. But to save you the effort I did a copy and paste. Here is his reply:

"Look God uses things such animals and insects to represent things.

God is hopeing that people will have enough smarts and common sense, to know there is no men on horses with fire and smoke and brimstone coming out of their mouths.

God uses animals and insects to represent other things.

Look in the book of Revelation, you will find the Locust army.
Have you ever seen Locust coming across an open field, they are so thick, that from a distance they look like a big dark cloud that you can't see thru because of the Locust being so thick.
The Locust army represent a human military that from a distance these men are so thick.moving across an open field like Locust do. So the Locust army is not real Locust insects, but a Military of men. Moving like Locust do. Across land."

In other words, when the Bible has totally ridiculous claims in it such as men on horse with fire, a worldwide flood, people coming from only two individuals it is not meant to be taken literally . . . What? Not the last two claims? But those are just as ridiculous as the earlier one and as Faithofchristian said:


"God is hopeing that people will have enough smarts and common sense, to know there is no" worldwide flood.

I wonder if he can see how he is being inconsistent.

Cheers, Im using 2 tablets, there was no expand button on his post. When replying all that showed is his name and post number. I tried 3 times before giving up.

Just gone back to it, the click to expand button is now there. Looks like the end quote flag is messed up.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Wasn't that supposed to have happened while at least some fo the apostles were still alive?

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)


Sounds like it.

 

[ChristineM]

Nope. Thats what the Bible is saying and you quoted it word for word.

So you think im kidding about what is written in the bible when you quoted it but apparently dont believe what it says so you need to interpret it to mean something different from what it says. But are apparently unwilling to say what you think it means but want us to guess what you think it means.

Good game isn't ​

Look God uses things such animals and insects to represent things.

God is hopeing that people will have enough smarts and common sense, to know there is no men on horses with fire and smoke and brimstone coming out of their mouths.

God uses animals and insects to represent other things.

Look in the book of Revelation, you will find the Locust army.
Have you ever seen Locust coming across an open field, they are so thick, that from a distance they look like a big dark cloud that you can't see thru because of the Locust being so thick.
The Locust army represent a human military that from a distance these men are so thick.moving across an open field like Locust do. So the Locust army is not real Locust insects, but a Military of men. Moving like Locust do. Across land.

So now you know gods mind? Interesting how he thinks exactly the same as you.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So now you know gods mind? Interesting how he thinks exactly the same as you.

If you understand that the Bible being God's word, then it's easy to understand where God is coming from and thinking about.

 

[`mud]

And that proves He's not entirely ignorant !
but it's awfully close !

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you understand that the Bible being God's word, then it's easy to understand where God is coming from and thinking about.

Why would you claim that your God is a lying, evil, incompetent, immoral thug?

 

[`mud]

WHAT ???