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Creationism and Evolution. Conflict or reconciliation.

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
UFO simply means exactly what its acronym says "Unidentified Flying Object". Last year there was a big kerfuffle because the US Department of Defense released videos of three UFO's. They were all shown to be from natural causes. When the report is "there was no natural explanation" that only means that they did not know the cause at that time. It is not evidence for aliens.

Certainly that is the case for most reports. It's the one or two percent that have no natural
explanations - such as radar tracking, missing vehicles and etc.. The point is - there's tons
we don't know, and a lot that we can never know.
I sometimes mention the Loch Ness and Min Min Lights phenomenons here - both proved to
be real phenomena with unexpected causes.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Certainly that is the case for most reports. It's the one or two percent that have no natural
explanations - such as radar tracking, missing vehicles and etc.. The point is - there's tons
we don't know, and a lot that we can never know.
I sometimes mention the Loch Ness and Min Min Lights phenomenons here - both proved to
be real phenomena with unexpected causes.
And my point was that even with unknown cases when investigated thoroughly it has never been aliens.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
But that didn't happen.
Where did you get the idea that this was originally a water world? Noöne knowledgeable about these subjects believes this. I know of no evidence supporting this.
How do you think the planet formed, from droplets of water in space?

What does this have to do with the sequence of planetary or biological evolution? Am I missing something?
Isn't this thread about two different proposed developmental sequences?
As I'm reading this, I'm thinking that (probably) no two planets or stars are the same.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
And my point was that even with unknown cases when investigated thoroughly it has never been aliens.

The Valentich guy I worked with. He was followed by a green blob (!) People on the ground at Cape Patterson
watched this blob orbiting above the light aircraft. Out to see the plane just vanished. Last sound recorded was
of grinding metal. Nothing ever was found - no oil slick, no life jacket, no severed limbs.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My sister experienced what is called the "sympathetic near death experience"
That is where someone else, usually someone near to a dying person, goes through the near death experience themselves - or a form thereof.
I don't doubt NDEs happen ─ the cousin of a good friend of mine had one after crashing his light aircraft at night and crawling from the wreckage to a nearby tree, he says.

But no, he didn't return with any new remote information about reality either.
I worked with a man who's brother was the pilot who was lost during an 'encounter' with an UFO 1976 in Victoria. We asked him what did NASA say about the audio and radar tapes they examined, he said "They said there was no natural explanation for what happened to my brother."
That pilot was Frederick Valentich. Disappearance of Frederick Valentich - Wikipedia
Since the wreckage was never found, there's no definitive explanation. There are several possibilities, though, including the "death spiral" one, as you'll see if you check "Valentich" in Wikipedia.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I don't doubt NDEs happen ─ the cousin of a good friend of mine had one after crashing his light aircraft at night and crawling from the wreckage to a nearby tree, he says.

But no, he didn't return with any new remote information about reality either.
Since the wreckage was never found, there's no definitive explanation. There are several possibilities, though, including the "death spiral" one, as you'll see if you check "Valentich" in Wikipedia.

Sure, but USUALLY SOMETHING IS FOUND LATER.
In Valentich's case nothing was recovered, ever. And there's the
ground witnesses as well.
Something 'got' him.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Valentich guy I worked with. He was followed by a green blob (!) People on the ground at Cape Patterson
watched this blob orbiting above the light aircraft. Out to see the plane just vanished. Last sound recorded was
of grinding metal. Nothing ever was found - no oil slick, no life jacket, no severed limbs.
And "we don't know" is never evidence for aliens.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
And "we don't know" is never evidence for aliens.

Sure, but it alerts us to the necessity of having an open mind.
I am always amused when someone says there's 'no evidence'
for possible extra-terrestrials but you read some weird object
is tracked by radar - that's evidence, isn't it?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sure, but it alerts us to the necessity of having an open mind.
I am always amused when someone says there's 'no evidence'
for possible extra-terrestrials but you read some weird object
is tracked by radar - that's evidence, isn't it?
No, it is not evidence. You are attempting to use an argument from ignorance. Roughly: "We don't know, therefore it is aliens".

Form a testable hypothesis first and then you may be able to claim to have evidence.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
[QUOTE="Valjean, post: 7088350, member: 57767"You believe God said this, but you have no real evidence at all to support it.
You have a very loose concept of evidence. By your standards the mythology of every religion and folk tale would be well evidenced.

A good standard is to test a prophecy. The bible states that the Jews would lose their
nation and be sent into exile with the coming of their Messiah.
The bible states that the Jews would remain a people long after most of the nations
around them were gone. The bible states the Jew would be few in number (they should
have a population similar to USA by now.) The bible states the Jew would suffer at the
hand of the Gentiles (evicted from over 100 countries, many killed.) The bible says the
nations that bless the Jews would be blessed (America is an example of that.) And the
bible states that one day the Jews would return and take back their ancient land.

Now try to put probability figures to all this if it's just coincidence.
I figured once that Jacob's prophecy for a future nation of Israel, lasting until the Messiah
came, was conservatively a one in a trillion chance if it was pure guess work.
But haven't people always retrospectively interpreted historical words and actions to mean whatever they wanted, or even edited manuscripts to more closely fit their desired interpretations? Don't different religions see all sorts of accurate predictions in their various writings?

Prophecies are a dime a dozen. The world has always had oracles, mystics, writers, sibyls and pythia that people believed had accurately described or predicted future events. described, later events. It's all clear -- in retrospect.

You can pick through almost anything and see patterns or predictions. Our brains are wired to see them -- even when they aren't there. We see images in the clouds and messages in records played backwards.

Reliable evidence tends to be reproducible, testable, falsifiable, consistent and consilient. Religious scriptures -- not so much.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
NDE is a brain-generated experience. Accordingly there is not one authenticated case of someone returning from an NDE or an OOB with new remote information about reality.
These experiences are common and generated from multiple causes. They're experienced as culturally familiar visions.
Hindus see Hindu visions, Native Americans or Australians see aboriginal American or Australian visions.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
But haven't people always retrospectively interpreted historical words and actions to mean whatever they wanted, or even edited manuscripts to more closely fit their desired interpretations? Don't different religions see all sorts of accurate predictions in their various writings?

Prophecies are a dime a dozen. The world has always had oracles, mystics, writers, sibyls and pythia that people believed had accurately described or predicted future events. described, later events. It's all clear -- in retrospect.

You can pick through almost anything and see patterns or predictions. Our brains are wired to see them -- even when they aren't there. We see images in the clouds and messages in records played backwards.

Reliable evidence tends to be reproducible, testable, falsifiable, consistent and consilient. Religious scriptures -- not so much.

Yes, we are pattern recognizing machines. My dog is especially good at that - even detecting
when I am walking around the house a fraction faster than usual.
But the example of the Jew above is valid. To the Gentiles and many Jews, "Next year in
Jerusalem", even in the frozen wastes of Russia (as Napoleon remarked) was an absurd
notion. Sub-tropical Palestine of 1800 years ago was long gone. Only it wasn't.

Generally I find these Nostradamus-readers quite annoying people. But I hold the account
of the Jew, Israel and the Messiah credible.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
No, it is not evidence. You are attempting to use an argument from ignorance. Roughly: "We don't know, therefore it is aliens".

Form a testable hypothesis first and then you may be able to claim to have evidence.

I accept your point. But if you have a 'vehicle' tracked by radar at mach 25 then there are
not many alternate ideas for what it might be. Sure, it could be some weird natural
phenomena - that's why we call it 'unidentified' -- but if something is following or orbiting
me, and it isn't ball lightning then I would suspect some alien has me in his/her/its sights!
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
When a vision a gas atmospheric recording condition exists seeing science with machines designed by human consciousness controlled by human thinkers uses the atmosphere for that purpose. Real machines unnatural are the proof.

The answer of causes why.

Cause effect changed to natural laws.

Law historic cause owns effect. Stone O planet existed. Earth God. Stone planet mass converts but remains present. First human science thoughts.

Sun amount radiation owned that effect.

To identify science for human choices.

Proof you are self possessed by human scientific theorising that is in fact not thinking on behalf of owned natural states in creation. It was earth thought.

You agreed with your own thoughts why science did destroy all life on earth and is in the process of achieving it again.

Earth should not be leaving it's mass by radiation losses. UFO machine effect caused equals. The answer.

Science machine human designed controlled forced earth to release radiation by sun mass maths thesis.

Earth was never a sun mass radiation release.

What earth no longer owned was a mass as mass conversion by mass of radiation a sun released. Left dusts.

The teaching against satanic theism. Sun history.

We learnt that lesson in human memory and even quote taught that we remembered.

So you would wonder at the egotism of the nuclear scientist being pre taught destroyer advice and then agreement to impose it again.

Father in AI heavenly machine encoded recorded life feedback. Owns a world communal human male overviewed advice.

By all experiences shared as data about life. Told me that when you perused irrational thinking being scientific destruction sun mass radiation effect it is imbalanced by subliminal secret felt human advice thought but not spoken.

About men thinking self superior expressing that ideal in human life due to science thesis.

Where males who don't agree with nature owning human life balanced as equal bodies uses symbolic hatred of a female as compared to what he feels about man self.

Such as to quote empty space to be female inferred as a womb. When a female is a human with a womb. Compared to God his space theme where all the power bodies sit.

Man by God status science is more powerful as owner. Being fake idealism.

Straight away as psychic healer you hear underlying motivated evil thinking. To tell lies about motivation of human thoughts.

To say I am god owner of all cosmic powers as a thinker. In reality a human nearly mineral bio water only living just as that body type inside of a gas mass water heavens lying.

The theist human group cult controlled human condition. To force by group control what they want believed just as humans. Yet the ego says otherwise.

Humans in reality exist by human sex. Owned two human parents. Live on planet Earth naturally with no other truthful human reasoning about advice.

Ask why earth released extra sun mass UFO radiation core heart as thesis to convert earth mass was about sun...so earth is releasing the other portion radiation to equals sun conversion.

An unnatural man science theist fault in science. Why sun theists in the past such as Galileo were put in jail when shroud sacrifice victimisation returned as evidence man in science already knew himself wrong. And had caused unnatural earth radiation release himself.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
But haven't people always retrospectively interpreted historical words and actions to mean whatever they wanted, or even edited manuscripts to more closely fit their desired interpretations? Don't different religions see all sorts of accurate predictions in their various writings?

Prophecies are a dime a dozen. The world has always had oracles, mystics, writers, sibyls and pythia that people believed had accurately described or predicted future events. described, later events. It's all clear -- in retrospect.

You can pick through almost anything and see patterns or predictions. Our brains are wired to see them -- even when they aren't there. We see images in the clouds and messages in records played backwards.

Reliable evidence tends to be reproducible, testable, falsifiable, consistent and consilient. Religious scriptures -- not so much.

I see it this way: the bible makes extraordinary claims, but for many of these
claims it backs them with historic metaphors, if you will. Thus 'God's people'
become the Jews (despite them being anything but) and the 'Promised Land'
becomes Palestine and 'called out of Egypt' (the world) becomes Exodus and
'God's sanctuary' became the altar and temple, and exiled from God becomes
Babylon and Rome - and so on.

The fact that religion and prophecy can be bogus doesn't mean ALL religion
and ALL prophecy is bogus.

:)
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I see it this way: the bible makes extraordinary claims, but for many of these
claims it backs them with historic metaphors, if you will. Thus 'God's people'
become the Jews (despite them being anything but) and the 'Promised Land'
becomes Palestine and 'called out of Egypt' (the world) becomes Exodus and
'God's sanctuary' became the altar and temple, and exiled from God becomes
Babylon and Rome - and so on.

The fact that religion and prophecy can be bogus doesn't mean ALL religion
and ALL prophecy is bogus.

:)
Basic human owned spirituality not bogus as we did come out of a higher spiritual place into life manifestation.

Not from outer space as heavens as gas filled in a portion of space now owning gas space. A higher non space amassing was owned when gases did not exist.

Mass not a gas takes up more space. Gas exists into space that was opened already as heated amassing was removed.

Heavens once owned a lesser amount of space. That allows us freedom of movement.

Why we say space in a presence gas is a spirit hence holy.

Gas spirit therefore came from burnt evil. A human never did.

Science speaks for science first.

Science never spoke on behalf of humans creation. Bodily presence what you lie about as religious science. We are not a gas spirit.

Reason all forms mass exist as mass first.

One was a teaching about mass.

Life is not one God or mass.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I accept your point. But if you have a 'vehicle' tracked by radar at mach 25 then there are
not many alternate ideas for what it might be. Sure, it could be some weird natural
phenomena - that's why we call it 'unidentified' -- but if something is following or orbiting
me, and it isn't ball lightning then I would suspect some alien has me in his/her/its sights!
Do you think that there are examples of that? The released videos that I have seen of "UFO"s have all been explained. No aliens needed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If, you are unable to understand or address the contents of the actual post that is okay, Have respect for the fact and do not make accusations or one liners which in no way refer or can be based on the actual post. Disappointed .
I was dealing with your post. You go too far in what God did. You actually stated that you believed that God lies since the evidence in the world tells us that the stories of Genesis are myth. Let's forget the Adam and Eve myth right now. Let's deal with the even easier to understand myth of Noah's Ark. Tell me, what is your version of the Noah's Ark myth? I can almost certainly explain how we know that did not happen. I may have to ask you some questions. But I am very sure that eventually you will be claiming that God lied. You almost certainly will not realize when you do that. If you did you would likely change your beliefs. Most Christians do not believe in a lying God which is why most Christians worldwide do not believe the myths of Genesis.
 
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