• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Crypto-currency and the role it's likely to play in the upcoming American presidential election.

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
As someone who spends a significant amount of time hanging out in the crypto-verse; reading and listening to cryptocurrency related news and influencers on YouTube, Twitter, and other places, I can tell you that most people involved in the space are hoping that Trump wins this election.

A few things to consider: it's estimated that something between 20 and 40% of American voters own cryptocurrency.

Trump is definitely the cryptocurrency candidate: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...trump-crypto-plan-coming-election-harris.html

More Democrats than Republicans own cryptocurrency, and anyone who's been keeping up on the issue knows that as far as their crypto investments go they would be much better off with a Trump win.

When Trump won in 2016 it was the part of the impetus for an insanely profitable cryptocurrency bull run, and if for no other reason a lot of people are expecting the same thing to happen this time if Trump wins.

The reason I think this is relevant is because, like I mentioned above, more Democrats/liberals are involved in cryptocurrency than Republicans, and the ones in the know realize that they would be shooting themselves in the foot financially if Harris gets in, which is bound to set them up for some conflict.

Anyway, this is something I haven't seen discussed here so I figured I'd bring it up.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
As someone who spends a significant amount of time hanging out in the crypto-verse; reading and listening to cryptocurrency related news and influencers on YouTube, Twitter, and other places, I can tell you that most people involved in the space are hoping that Trump wins this election.

A few things to consider: it's estimated that something between 20 and 40% of American voters own cryptocurrency.

Trump is definitely the cryptocurrency candidate: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...trump-crypto-plan-coming-election-harris.html

More Democrats than Republicans own cryptocurrency, and anyone who's been keeping up on the issue knows that as far as their crypto investments go they would be much better off with a Trump win.

When Trump won in 2016 it was the part of the impetus for an insanely profitable cryptocurrency bull run, and if for no other reason a lot of people are expecting the same thing to happen this time if Trump wins.

The reason I think this is relevant is because, like I mentioned above, more Democrats/liberals are involved in cryptocurrency than Republicans, and the ones in the know realize that they would be shooting themselves in the foot financially if Harris gets in, which is bound to set them up for some conflict.

Anyway, this is something I haven't seen discussed here so I figured I'd bring it up.
Maybe you could explain why you think that crypto currency is more a Democrat/liberal thing than a Republican thing, I would have thought it was more of a libertarian thing which could go either way.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe you could explain why you think that crypto currency is more a Democrat/liberal thing than a Republican thing,

Cryptocurrency tends to be most popular among young Americans, with millennials owning the biggest share: Which Generation Is Most Likely to Invest in Crypto?.

Millennials are almost three times as likely to be Democrat as Republican:

I would have thought it was more of a libertarian thing which could go either way.

It started out that way, but that was back when more people were into it for ideological reasons.

Now it's mostly about ROI and the potential technological applications.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I'ld say that the fact that this is even an item in a presidential election, just goes to show how the state of affairs really is.

Crypto's are the epitome of greed, lazyness and scamming.
The only reason to buy it is while hoping a greater fool will come along who'll buy it back from you at a higher price.

The sooner this entire thing collapses, the better it will be for the world.

But before I go on a rant about that.... I think it's very telling how sad the societal situation is, if such a scam scheme is actually seen as a reason to vote someone like Trump into office.

I find it mindblowing.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I'ld say that the fact that this is even an item in a presidential election, just goes to show how the state of affairs really is.

How 'what' the state of affairs is?
(Feels like you left out an adjective there)
Crypto's are the epitome of greed, lazyness and scamming.

There's an opinion. I'm guessing it's an uninformed one, but feel free to correct me on that If I'm wrong.
The only reason to buy it is while hoping a greater fool will come along who'll buy it back from you at a higher price.

There must be a hell a lot of fools in the world then. Bitcoin started out at six cents a piece in 2009, it's currently bouncing back and forth between $55,000.00 and $70, 000.00 per.

And as far as fools go, at this point you're talking about fools like: Black Rock Financial, JP Morgan, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Stanley, Elon Musk, Robert Kiyosaki, ...

You know, people who have no idea at all what they're doing when it comes to money. :D
The sooner this entire thing collapses, the better it will be for the world.

People have been saying that for 15 years now.
But before I go on a rant

Too late.
about that.... I think it's very telling how sad the societal situation is, if such a scam scheme is actually seen as a reason to vote someone like Trump into office.

Which could suggest there may be more to it than that (?).
I find it mindblowing.

I get the feeling you haven't done a whole lot of research into any of this.

It might be worth your while to look into it a bit.
 
Last edited:

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
As someone who spends a significant amount of time hanging out in the crypto-verse; reading and listening to cryptocurrency related news and influencers on YouTube, Twitter, and other places, I can tell you that most people involved in the space are hoping that Trump wins this election.
Maybe most who are speaking out on the question in the subset of the community you choose to view. I would expect that most people wouldn't choose a presidential candidate on the basis of a single potential side-effect of their election.

A few things to consider: it's estimated that something between 20 and 40% of American voters own cryptocurrency.
Sorry, but that's just rubbish! Those kind of figures only come out of self-selected online surveys. And a proportion of people who own/use cryptocurrency won't be doing so as long-term investment. I don't see this as anything like as significant an electoral factor as you're trying to make it out to be.

More Democrats than Republicans own cryptocurrency, and anyone who's been keeping up on the issue knows that as far as their crypto investments go they would be much better off with a Trump win.
I'm not sure about there being such a distinct political split, especially in the context of investments. And again, it's going to be far from the only or even primary reason for most people's vote.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe most who are speaking out on the question in the subset of the community you choose to view. I would expect that most people wouldn't choose a presidential candidate on the basis of a single potential side-effect of their election.

Sorry, but that's just rubbish! Those kind of figures only come out of self-selected online surveys.

Here you go:
*

ChatGPT says: "As of recent estimates, about 20% of American adults have invested in or used cryptocurrency in some form. This figure can vary with market conditions and trends, but it reflects a significant portion of the population engaging with digital currencies."

------
A 2024 report from Security.org, found that up to 40% of American adults own crypto, up 10% from 2023’s findings. That would mean over 100 million Americans currently hold cryptocurrencies, which is very bullish news"
----

Google AI Overview
"As of June 2024, 40% of American adults own cryptocurrency, which is an estimated 93 million people. This is up from 30% in 2023"

----
"As of August 2021, 29% of all Millennial American parents own cryptocurrency. That's compared to 13% across all generations"

*Edit: note that the 7% estimate is from the federal reserve, and take into account that the Fed hasn't become very efficient at tracking cryptocurrency ownership yet.


Want more?
And a proportion of people who own/use cryptocurrency won't be doing so as long-term investment.

Doesn't matter. Anyone who's involved in cryptocurrency for ROI is going to benefit (and no doubt hope for) a bull market.
I don't see this as anything like as significant an electoral factor as you're trying to make it out to be.

I wasn't aware I was "making it out to be" anything. As far as I can see all I did was post a few statistics.
I'm not sure about there being such a distinct political split, especially in the context of investments.

Not sure what you're saying here: If you're suggesting that Republicans are just as likely to own cryptocurrency is Democrats, I already explained why that isn't true in the OP.

If you're seeing something wrong with my math feel free to point that out.

If you're suggesting that one party is just as favorable our unfavorable to cryptocurrency as the other, You're about as wrong as you can be there.

Again: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...trump-crypto-plan-coming-election-harris.html

The key issue when it comes to cryptocurrency is the fact that in the past Harris has expressed support for chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission Gary Gesler's stance that cryptocurrency should be treated as securities. Nobody in the crypto space wants that.
And again, it's going to be far from the only or even primary reason for most people's vote.

Strawman. Nobody suggested it would be anybody's only reason for voting one way or the other.

But to use that as a reason to disregard it completely doesn't make any sense either.

It's definitely something a significant number of voters care about.
 
Last edited:

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
How 'what' the state of affairs is?
(Feels like you left out an adjective there)

Sad; depressing; etc

There's an opinion. I'm guessing it's an uninformed one, but feel free to correct me on that If I'm wrong.

It's an informed observation.


There must be a hell a lot of fools in the world then.

Indeed. And these days, they are far easier to reach and manipulate thanks to social media.

Bitcoin started out at six cents a piece in 2009, it's currently bouncing back and forth between $55,000.00 and $70, 000.00 per.
And as far as fools go, at this point you're talking about fools like: Black Rock Financial, JP Morgan, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Stanley, Elon Musk, Robert Kiyosaki, ...
You know, people who have no idea at all what they're doing when it comes to money. :D

Ow, they know very well what they are doing...


People have been saying that for 15 years now.

And they will continue to say it till it actually collapses.

Too late.

You haven't seen me ranting yet, have you? :joycat:

Which could suggest there may be more to it than that (?).

No. It's just money and greed. It tells us about the state of society. About the "social media" world we find ourselves in. About people wanting to have lambo's and swimming pools and mansions while flashing golden jewelry, preferably without having to do any work for it. About a whole new level of shallowness that "social media" has brought to the world.

I get the feeling you haven't done a whole lot of research into any of this.
It might be worth your while to look into it a bit.
I'm a software engineer and I've been following this things since its inception. I'm aware of what it is and what it is all about.

It's a scam build purely on greater fool theory. There's nothing else there. Except a climate disaster and a complete waste of energy.
 
Last edited:

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Here you go:
*

ChatGPT says: "As of recent estimates, about 20% of American adults have invested in or used cryptocurrency in some form. This figure can vary with market conditions and trends, but it reflects a significant portion of the population engaging with digital currencies."

------
A 2024 report from Security.org, found that up to 40% of American adults own crypto, up 10% from 2023’s findings. That would mean over 100 million Americans currently hold cryptocurrencies, which is very bullish news"
----

Google AI Overview
"As of June 2024, 40% of American adults own cryptocurrency, which is an estimated 93 million people. This is up from 30% in 2023"

----
"As of August 2021, 29% of all Millennial American parents own cryptocurrency. That's compared to 13% across all generations"

*Edit: note that the 7% estimate is from the federal reserve, and take into account that the Fed hasn't become very efficient at tracking cryptocurrency ownership yet.
Meanwhile, 1% of bitcoin holders, hold over 90% of all bitcoin.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm a software engineer and I've been following this things since its inception. I'm aware of what it is and what it is all about
The fact that you keep referring to something as complex and multifaceted as the cryptoverse as If it were some sort of unified 'it' suggests to me that you don't.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
ChatGPT says: "As of recent estimates, about 20% of American adults have invested in or used cryptocurrency in some form...
I don't accept anything via AI generation if it doesn't have a direct source, since AI can easily be mistaken or manipulated. Taken on face value though, it is worth noting that question does combine invested or used and yet is a much lower figure than others claimed for "currently own".

A 2024 report from Security.org, found that up to 40% of American adults own crypto, up 10% from 2023’s findings.
Yes, that is the self-selected survey (not study) I mentioned, commissioned and funded by organisations with a vested interest in promoting crypto.

Edit: note that the 7% estimate is from the federal reserve, and take into account that the Fed hasn't become very efficient at tracking cryptocurrency ownership yet.
Quite possibly, but you have no basis to claim your other sources (some of which aren't even clear) would be any better, so blindly accepting the 20%-40% while entirely dismissing the 7% is unjustified.

The true answer is that we have no idea, and that it would take much more detailed independent research to establish any kind of reliable figures.

Doesn't matter. Anyone who's involved in cryptocurrency for ROI is going to benefit (and no doubt hope for) a bull market.
Not anyone, only those who know how to take advantage of such a market, and most of that advantage would be by selling their crypto high to less informed people who would in turn loose out.

I wasn't aware I was "making it out to be" anything. As far as I can see all I did was post a few statistics.
You were making it out to be significant in people's voting decisions, and implied that people who own crypto will and/or should vote Trump, regardless of their party affiliation.

Not sure what you're saying here: If you're suggesting that Republicans are just as likely to own cryptocurrency is Democrats, I already explained why that isn't true in the OP.
Actually, you didn't explain it at all, you just asserted it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not convinced the difference is going to be especially significant, especially among the more moderate "lean" voters for whom this could influence their decision.

If you're suggesting that one party is just as favorable our unfavorable to cryptocurrency as the other, You're about as wrong as you can be there.
No, but I don't think it's anything like as clear cut as you imagine. While Trump talks big about the topic (at least, to audiences he imagines will like it) and seeks to profit from the field himself, who knows what he secondary presidency would actually bring, in general economics and crypto in general. And whoever is in the Oval Office for the next four years isn't necessarily going to have a massive impact on the direction of travel of government approaches to crypto around the world (or even much in the US).

Strawman. Nobody suggested it would be anybody's only reason for voting one way or the other.
Yes, but intentionally or not, your OP comes across as implying that it could (and should) be a significant factor for up to 40% of voters. I'm not saying it is insignificant, but I am saying that it is nothing like as significant as your OP suggests and nothing like as clear cut as presidential vote in the US.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Even if that were true

It is true.

that's separate from what we're talking about and has no bearing on the relevance of anything I've presented yet.
It very much has. It illustrates that it's a game being played by the rich and influential.
People like to think that because "so many people" are into crypto, that therefor there is great distribution of that "wealth".
Not the case at all. The bulk of it all sits in the pockets of the filthy rich and influential, and they toy with the masses who play around with the peanuts while they make the filthy rich even richer. The more people these rich folks get to play with crypto, the richer they get.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The fact that you keep referring to something as complex and multifaceted as the cryptoverse as If it were some sort of unified 'it' suggests to me that you don't.
The central idea remains the same.
By "it", I'm referring to the red thread that makes something part of that "cryptoverse", as you say :rolleyes:
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Yes, that is the self-selected survey (not study) I mentioned, commissioned and funded by organisations with a vested interest in promoting crypto.

Emphasis added.
Crypto lives on the hype.
No hype = no money

Not anyone, only those who know how to take advantage of such a market, and most of that advantage would be by selling their crypto high to less informed people who would in turn loose out.

Yep. That's how it goes in "greater fool scams".

I always chuckle also when the next "influencer" seemingly randomly promotes some crypto coin to his/her few million followers.
Guess what the game plan is there. :rolleyes:

Actually, you didn't explain it at all, you just asserted it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not convinced the difference is going to be especially significant, especially among the more moderate "lean" voters for whom this could influence their decision.

I don't know about these numbers, but my expectation would be that there would be little significant difference between democrat / republican when it comes to "crypto investors". The profile of crypto fans isn't political in that sense, in my experience.

No, but I don't think it's anything like as clear cut as you imagine. While Trump talks big about the topic (at least, to audiences he imagines will like it) and seeks to profit from the field himself, who knows what he secondary presidency would actually bring, in general economics and crypto in general. And whoever is in the Oval Office for the next four years isn't necessarily going to have a massive impact on the direction of travel of government approaches to crypto around the world (or even much in the US).

TBH, my first thought when Trump started to talk up crypto's, was about the same thought I have when I see Musk talk it up or some random influencer talk it up.
That thought being: "okay, so he bought some and is trying to manipulate the price to go up so he can sell with profit"


Yes, but intentionally or not, your OP comes across as implying that it could (and should) be a significant factor for up to 40% of voters. I'm not saying it is insignificant, but I am saying that it is nothing like as significant as your OP suggests and nothing like as clear cut as presidential vote in the US.
People tend to live in their bubbles.
Since he's into crypto, I imagine that in the crypto circle, this particular subject sells like hot cakes and be considered hugely important news.
Meanwhile, I imagine that there are also millions in the US who will respond to that as "crypto-what-now?" who don't even know what it is.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I'm not sure how Trump being elected will increase the value of crypto. Biden is president and I'm amazed how high it is now. If bitcoin is at $65K will it go up significantly under Trump, even if his economic policies predict a recession? How could anyone who isn't already wealthy afford to get into it now?

Crypto always seemed to me a mix between gold and Beanie Babies, it has value, but only what others are willing to pay at any given moment.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I'm not sure how Trump being elected will increase the value of crypto. Biden is president and I'm amazed how high it is now. If bitcoin is at $65K will it go up significantly under Trump, even if his economic policies predict a recession? How could anyone who isn't already wealthy afford to get into it now?
Crypto price is easily manipulated by farting in the right direction. And Trump is an expert farter.

It's just a species of a ponzi scheme, really.
The "holdings" don't actually have the cashreserves they need. And in as much as they do have it, most of it is just another crypto (so-called "stablecoin") which in itself actually has the same problem. Meanwhile its energy consumption for "mining" and adding to the blockchains is nothing short of insane. Bitcoin by its own already uses more energy then Finland as an entire country. It's about 0.5% of all energy consumption worldwide. It doesn't take an economic genius to realize that this is not sustainable.

It can go on for quite a while, but not indefinitely. Sooner or later, it will be over almost overnight.
Remember Madoff? The dude ran his scheme for 17 years.
The idea that crypto is here to stay "because it's been here for 15 years since bitcoin was introduced", is just wishful thinking.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't accept anything via AI generation if it doesn't have a direct source, since AI can easily be mistaken or manipulated. Taken on face value though, it is worth noting that question does combine invested or used and yet is a much lower figure than others claimed for "currently own".

What difference does that make?
Yes, that is the self-selected survey (not study) I mentioned, commissioned and funded by organisations with a vested interest in promoting crypto.

And what makes you think security.org is "commissioned and funded by organizations with a vested interest in promoting crypto"?

Anyway, I asked you if you wanted more sources. In fact if you want, I'll let you pick.

Although I have a feeling I could give you a 1,000 credible sources as you would wave them all away too.
Quite possibly, but you have no basis to claim your other sources (some of which aren't even clear)would be any better

And you have no basis for dismissing them out of hand other than that doing so supports your claim. Or that you seem to think it does anyway.
, so blindly accepting the 20%-40% while entirely dismissing the 7% is unjustified.

I didn't "entirely dismiss" anything. I explained why they may be under-reporting.

You know, usually when somebody has to use this much hyperbole it's a sign that they don't have a whole bunch of conviction in what they're saying, but wants to come across as if they do.

Maybe you should stop and think about why you need to do that.

The true answer is that we have no idea,

Okie dokie then, would it make you feel better if we said, " Some voters" and left it at that?

If you don't think that this issue is going to have a significant impact on the election I don't even know why you're bothering posting in this thread.

And I'm completely baffled by how upset you seem to be over the whole issue.

Lose some money in the market?
and that it would take much more detailed independent research to establish any kind of reliable figures.

Again: If it makes you feel better, let's just say 'some' and leave it at that.

Or if that doesn't do it for you, let's say it's one pimply faced millennial living in his mother's basement whose entire $240 net worth is tied up in Bitcoin, and from there we can discuss how we think he's going to vote and why.

Not anyone, only those who know how to take advantage of such a market, and most of that advantage would be by selling their crypto high to less informed people who would in turn loose out.

Regardless: literally anybody who owns crypto is going to benefit from a bull market. Period.

If you really think that there are people out there who own crypto who are hoping it will fail, you're going to have to explain that line of thinking.

You were making it out to be significant in people's voting decisions,

Which it absolutely is and will be in many people's decisions.

Oh wait: I mean in that one pimply faced millennial's decision.

(Phew)
and implied that people who own crypto will and/or should vote Trump,

No, I implied that they might be inclined to. And I explained why.

(More hyperbole)
regardless of their party affiliation.

I suggested that that could happen, and I also explained why there too.
Actually, you didn't explain it at all,

Sure did. Not sure how you missed it.
you just asserted it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not convinced the difference is going to be especially significant, especially among the more moderate "lean" voters for whom this could influence their decision.

No, but I don't think it's anything like as clear cut as you imagine.

Cool! You can see into my imagination now! What are some of your other superpowers (I mean aside from missing the point)?
While Trump talks big about the topic (at least, to audiences he imagines will like it) and seeks to profit from the field himself, who knows what he secondary presidency would actually bring,
We're talking about politics so it isn't about what people know, it's about what people believe and what people expect.
Again: when he was elected in 2016 crypto went on an insane or run. Regardless of whether or not those two facts are related, most people in the crypto space are convinced that they are and are convinced that the same thing will happen if he's elected again.

That's the point.
in general economics and crypto in general. And whoever is in the Oval Office for the next four years isn't necessarily going to have a massive impact on the direction of travel of government approaches to crypto around the world (or even much in the US).

See my last comment.
Yes, but intentionally or not, your OP comes across as implying that it could (and should) be a significant factor for up to 40% of voters.

Yup, and as far as I can see you haven't said anything that convincingly disputes that.
I'm not saying it is insignificant, but I am saying that it is nothing like as significant as your OP suggests and nothing like as clear cut as presidential vote in the US.
It looks to me like you're going by your impression of what I said rather than what I actually said.

And like I suggested above, It seems pretty clear to me that your impressions are being influenced largely by emotion, for some reason.

I'm not willing to buy into that, it's too much work trying to have a constructive conversation with somebody when they're like that.

On the other hand if you would like to discuss the OP at face value, that would be great.
 
Last edited:

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not sure how Trump being elected will increase the value of crypto.

I'm not all that clear on that either, but I do know that it's largely about perception: as I mentioned in the OP, crypto went on an insane Bull run the last time Trump was elected, and whether or not those two facts are even related, most people who you talk to in the crypto verse are absolutely convinced that they are, and that history will repeat itself if Trump is elected.

Add to that the fact that the most predominant crypto influencers on Twitter and YouTube (and remember we're talking mostly about a millennial audience so this is significant) are aggressively promoting this narrative, it's something that your average crypto owner is libel to be convinced of.

Biden is president and I'm amazed how high it is now. If bitcoin is at $65K will it go up significantly under Trump, even if his economic policies predict a recession? How could anyone who isn't already wealthy afford to get into it now?

That's a good point. On the other hand, the idea that it's going to become harder and harder to get a share is bound to cause quite a bit of FOMO (It always does) and between that and the fact that people are going to have a harder time making ends meet we're bound to see a lot of desperation moves: college students taking out student loans to buy crypto, people refinancing their houses, people gambling with whatever little savings they have . . .

We've seen all this before during the recession spawned by the pandemic. 2021 was an incredibly good year for crypto in spite of the recession.

Crypto always seemed to me a mix between gold and Beanie Babies,

That's a fairly good analogy, especially considering that there are literally thousands of different cryptocurrencies now with vastly different use cases: 'meme' coins are literally useless, and their owners will proudly and happily declare so (they really are digital beanie babies), but that's the part of the crypto market that's done the best this year, and it's done ridiculously well.
it has value, but only what others are willing to pay at any given moment.

Absolutely.
 
Top