OMG that would be something wouldn't it? To take the case (it would never happen) and after declare that hurtful things in God's Name are lawful now......There is a movie something like that isn't it?
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Cult Test
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Ah.
My apologies.
I misunderstood your reply.
Though I suspect that that would not be the end of the hate, would it?
No it wouldn't. I cannot imagine what it feels like to be dead but alive. That is how the governing body's regulation affects many people. To a dissident's loyal JW family members she is dead. She knows she is not dead but she knows that to her daughter she is dead.
She hates being dead but she knows if she succumbs to their twisted logic she will become deader still.
By the way, I do not disagree with a law that forbids teaching creation in school. I am for a law that prohibits pushing no creator. I think it should be left alone. Evolution is OK. But I do not agree it should be taught with a twist to eliminate God. Evolution can be left simple in public schools. It need not emphasize a lack of design.
What I think defines a group as cult most is their claim their message is God sent. Ancient Israel would qualify as a cult according to me but I have seen enough real evidence to believe their message really was God sent. Cults are the antithesis of truth. I believe Israel and Israel's message are true. Yehoshua is true or early Christianity would be cult too. Anyone or any group that says, believe me or us is to believe God, is cult. You know Jesus only ever said "believe me", once. It was to the Samaritan woman at the well. John 4:21 He did say "believe this" in places but it was about what he said, not about himself. The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses teach that to believe them is the same as to believe God.
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
Covering up child rape accusations. I heard there are 7 law suits against then because of this but that could be wrong. I hope more and more survivors sue so they will be forced to change.
I suppose the government couldn't do anything about the shunning. I think there should be more awareness about high control groups.
The problem is when JW are told not to watch or read any media that is criticial of the org, so half of the time that don't even know what their org is doing.
I didn't know. The Jehovah's Witnesses are taught social media allows bad people into your home. They are discouraged about going on Facebook and forums aren't even mentioned. Most people do not know what forum is. To everyone to whom I say I spend a lot of time on forum they say "what's that?"
They say they know the Bible better than anyone. But then they teach that bad people and grandmothers can take away their resolve to be righteous for God. Odd, isn't it? Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It's odd they believe grandmas can do it and will every chance they get. So they won't let them have a chance.
I am no lawyer but I have heard cases where grandparents have sued for visitation rights. Are the rumors all false stories? The governinment can't stop them from shunning. For goodness sakes the governing body confesses they do not really teach it. But I think the governrment can do something about visitation rights. Humans have children so that their legacy can continue. Jehovah's Witnesses deny thier parents that legacy. There is a scripture about it, but it has to do with money. Jehovah's Witnesses do not know how to extend the meaning of scripture. It is because they are taught it is literal, not spiritual. Mark 7:11 but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that
By their denying their parents access to their grandchildren they obey the Pharisee rule, not Jesus' rule.
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Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
Well yes I thought parents were meant to be honoured, I think it is a cheek to shun your parents who have looked after you. And to deny them access to their grandchildren is wrong also.
I thought of another definition of what I believe a cult is. It's members are not allowed to grow beyond what is prescribed by it's leader/leaders.
If a member of a cult grows beyond the parameters of the group they will be required to leave. Fine. But if they leave, they must leave behind all their loved ones. Not fine.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
I agree. I hear all these stories about ex-cult members being ostracized from their families, and it's indeed very saddening.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to set the record straight on this point, savagewind. It is absolutely false that former members are tracked for decades. My sister and her husband are 60 years old. They left Mormonism roughly 40 years ago. Neither of them has ever been asked to rejoin. My son and daughter are both in their early 30s. My son left the Church 15 years ago and my daughter 10 years ago. Neither of them have been approached to rejoin. I could give you dozens upon dozens more examples.
Sure, we'd like to see those who left come back, but there are definitely no systematic efforts to force the issue. And yes, there are a few extremely jealous people who are going to never let up on someone who leaves. Nevertheless, I'd say that 98% of the people who leave experience pretty much the same thing you experienced when you left the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
But did you ever stop to consider the fact that Jesus left His Apostles in the position of governing His Church? I don't see anything wrong with a governing body; I actually think it's what Christ had in mind when He organized His Church. The thing is, after Christ's resurrection and ascension into Heaven, He continued to direct His Church through that group of men, and did so by revelation. That's why He praised Peter so, when Peter alone, of all the Apostles, recognized Him as being "the Christ, the Son of the living God." He pointed out that it was not "flesh and blood" that had revealed this fact to Peter, but our "Father in Heaven." As long as God is communicating with a governing body, there is a very good reason for their existence. In such a case, Jesus Christ really would be leading the Church himself; He would just be doing so through individuals He chose to oversee His Church in His absence.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
To me, the single most telling indicator that a religious group is a cult is the isolation of its members. When members of a religion are not encouraged to associate with people outside the group (or particularly when they are forbidden to do so and know that they will be punished for disobeying) and when they are discouraged from learning all they can about not only their own group but other groups, this leads to mind-control more than any other thing.
I do not doubt Jesus did commend men to positions of a higher rank than all the other flock. But I seriously doubt it was ever for an interpretation of LAW. The law is spiritual since Jesus. Jesus is High Priest. No one is able to tell what the Spirit says to the congregation except The Spirit. Men have taken it upon themself to interpret the Spirit of Truth.
So what are the men who are really assigned do? They act in the manner of Moses and the men selected out of Israel to judge the people according to their disputes. Exodus chapter 18 They never were for the interpreting law. They were never for teaching peace. They are for keeping the peace. I know for a fact the governing body teach it and do not keep it.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
And yet go to any Christian Church and you'll hear someone preach to the congregation. Yes, it is the spirit which testifies of the truth of what that person says. I would agree with you on that point, but I would disagree that having a governing body of Apostles was not, in large part, to preserve doctrinal purity. As long as Christ's Apostles were living, and Christ was directing His Church through revelation to them, there was a greater unity in terms of belief and understanding than existed after they died and this governing body ceased to exist.
Paul pointed out that Jesus appointed certain individuals for certain purposes, and said that this organization was to exist until we all become unified in our faith. He also said that without this organizational structure, we'd be "as children, tossed about by every wind of doctrine." One preacher says one thing and another preacher says something else. And the thing is, they both believe they are being led by the Spirit.
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NWT Exodus 18:20, You should warn them about what the regulations and the laws are and make known to them the way in which they should walk and the work that they should do. 21 But you should select from the people capable men fearing God, trustworthy men hating dishonest profit, and appoint these over them as chiefs over thousands, chiefs over hundreds, chiefs over fifties, and chiefs over tens. 22 They should judge the people when cases arise, and they will bring every difficult case to you, but every minor case they will decide. Make it easier for yourself by letting them share the load along with you. 23 If you do this, and God so commands you, you will be able to stand the strain, and everyone will go home satisfied.”
Verse 22 from the Hebrew: wə·šā·p̄ə·ṭū Judge ’eṯ- hā·‘ām the people bə·ḵāl all ‘êṯ times wə·hā·yāh it be that kāl- every had·dā·ḇār dispute hag·gā·ḏōl major yā·ḇî·’ū will bring ’ê·le·ḵā, to you wə·ḵāl every had·dā·ḇār dispute haq·qā·ṭōn minor yiš·pə·ṭū- will judge hêm; like wə·hā·qêl will be easier mê·‘ā·le·ḵā, and they wə·nā·śə·’ū will bear ’it·tāḵ. for
Verse 22 does not say those chosen out will judge the people. It says they will judge every minor dispute.
Jesus is the greater Moses. He is The Judge of Truth. "Jehovah" is Judge of Truth but YHVH has given it to Yehoshua to be judge. The men who Jesus appointed to settle law? no! minor disputes have taken it upon themselves to interpret The Word. The Word that is for LIFE.
It is cult to believe the way of truth and life has been handed over to any group.
Verse 22 from the Hebrew: wə·šā·p̄ə·ṭū Judge ’eṯ- hā·‘ām the people bə·ḵāl all ‘êṯ times wə·hā·yāh it be that kāl- every had·dā·ḇār dispute hag·gā·ḏōl major yā·ḇî·’ū will bring ’ê·le·ḵā, to you wə·ḵāl every had·dā·ḇār dispute haq·qā·ṭōn minor yiš·pə·ṭū- will judge hêm; like wə·hā·qêl will be easier mê·‘ā·le·ḵā, and they wə·nā·śə·’ū will bear ’it·tāḵ. for
Verse 22 does not say those chosen out will judge the people. It says they will judge every minor dispute.
Jesus is the greater Moses. He is The Judge of Truth. "Jehovah" is Judge of Truth but YHVH has given it to Yehoshua to be judge. The men who Jesus appointed to settle law? no! minor disputes have taken it upon themselves to interpret The Word. The Word that is for LIFE.
It is cult to believe the way of truth and life has been handed over to any group.
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I do not know yiddish. Ecclesia is what the apostles wereI believe.