Curious about the UU.

[Black_Shuck]

I am a person that has had a very very bad run in with religion. (I've been disfellowshiped from the Jehovah's Witness. I've been asked not to come back to two southern baptist churches.) I have questioned God all my life on why I am what I am, I've raged at him, I've cried at what I felt was complete injustice and madness of the world. I gave on God and sought to be a good man, to do what I could to make things easier on the people suffering in this world. I am not holy or clean by any sense but I have open mind and attempt to thing as justly as fairly as I can being an imperfect creature of this world.

During an extremely dark period of life I was approached by a person that claim to be a UU minister, I never even heard of this religion until I met him, he tried to express that I am loved and I am on the right path long as I continue to act in love. Needless to say with my repulsion to religious indoctrination I blew him off. I've glanced over a little about this religion but I still don't think any deity can love me. He told me to learn a little more on UU to see that even a person like me can reach a better less bitter and dark mind set.

Can people like me be saved? Those that have casual sex? Those that swear? Those that show compassion for God people and his enemies alike? Those that participate in war? Those that are alternative sexualities? Those that are content with humanity and think that even as flawed as we are that none should have to be tortured forever?

Let me know what is up, UU's.

 

[bicker]

You're operating from foundations laid by the very religious thought that you have rejected. Your question ("Can people like me be saved?") is not relevant to UU: Everyone is saved. A loving God would leave none of It's children un-saved.

UU is the coming together of two religious traditions, each going back almost 2000 years, and each eventually traced back to pre-Jesus Judaism. The first 'U' is Unitarianism, the belief that God, whatever God is, is singular, not a divided God, not a trinity, not many gods. The second 'U', which gets directly to your question, is Universalism, the belief that everyone is "saved". A fundamental aspect of Universalism is that the focus is to "do good" in this life, not myopically-focused on some future here-after, but because this is the life that is valuable, that is worthy of your best works.

With regard to your professed transgressions, if you consider them transgressions then they are. UU won't dictate your dogma, but rather will respect it as long as it is compatible with UU's seven principles. Of the transgressions you outlined, the only one that you'd have to have to think about, in that regard, is that with respect to war. There is justification for war, but there is also the possibility that war could be waged in variance from UU principles. With regard to the rest, regarding sex and verbiage and your perspective on eternity, none contravene UU principles, so if they are not transgressions according to your chosen dogma, then they aren't transgressions. However, as long as you consider them transgressions, you will feel guilt. That's on you. The door is open for you to change your perspective, especially since you've clearly expressed that you believe that a different way is best.

 

[Black_Shuck]

You're operating from foundations laid by the very religious thought that you have rejected. Your question ("Can people like me be saved?") is not relevant to UU: Everyone is saved. A loving God would leave none of It's children un-saved.

UU is the coming together of two religious traditions, each going back almost 2000 years, and each eventually traced back to pre-Jesus Judaism. The first 'U' is Unitarianism, the belief that God, whatever God is, is singular, not a divided God, not a trinity, not many gods. The second 'U', which gets directly to your question, is Universalism, the belief that everyone is "saved". A fundamental aspect of Universalism is that the focus is to "do good" in this life, not myopically-focused on some future here-after, but because this is the life that is valuable, that is worthy of your best works.

With regard to your professed transgressions, if you consider them transgressions then they are. UU won't dictate your dogma, but rather will respect it as long as it is compatible with UU's seven principles. Of the transgressions you outlined, the only one that you'd have to have to think about, in that regard, is that with respect to war. There is justification for war, but there is also the possibility that war could be waged in variance from UU principles. With regard to the rest, regarding sex and verbiage and your perspective on eternity, none contravene UU principles, so if they are not transgressions according to your chosen dogma, then they aren't transgressions. However, as long as you consider them transgressions, you will feel guilt. That's on you. The door is open for you to change your perspective, especially since you've clearly expressed that you believe that a different way is best.

Thank you. I needed to hear that. Personally they never felt wrong to me but I was going off of JW/Christain text. I felt like I was a decent human and not evil, I kinda just needed something not to shut me down. Thanks Guy. I have more question like I know UU doesn't have their own Dogma but if I am borderline atheist how would I get a better understanding your group?

 

[Storm]

Bicker gave an excellent response to your first post.

I would only add that, while we're rooted firmly in liberal Christiantiy, we now embrace people of all religious persuasions, including "none."

Thank you. I needed to hear that. Personally they never felt wrong to me but I was going off of JW/Christain text. I felt like I was a decent human and not evil, I kinda just needed something not to shut me down. Thanks Guy. I have more question like I know UU doesn't have their own Dogma but if I am borderline atheist how would I get a better understanding your group?

While we're encouraged to figure out theology for ourselves, the statement that we have no dogma is debateable. Ours is a covenantal faith based upon the 7 Principles:

1) The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2) Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3) Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4) A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5) The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6) The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7) Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
​

If you agree with all of the above (or even most), I would strongly encourage you to explore UU further. I'd be delighted to help, too.

 

[Black_Shuck]

I would like to explore them further from what you listed it is how I have been trying to live my life ever since I've tried to separate from all those religions that taught me to hate myself for being human and for being a little different.

My curiosity have been piqued even more, do you have any reading material online or someone that I could speak with through chat? I have a lot of personal questions to ask and I am not sure this would be the proper place.

 

[bicker]

The best way of learning what UU is all about is to read the book A Chosen Faith, by John A. Buehrens and F. Forrester Church

This is a preview of the book, not the full book (that you'd have to buy):
A chosen faith: an introduction to ... - Google Books

 

[Storm]

I would like to explore them further from what you listed it is how I have been trying to live my life ever since I've tried to separate from all those religions that taught me to hate myself for being human and for being a little different.

My curiosity have been piqued even more, do you have any reading material online or someone that I could speak with through chat? I have a lot of personal questions to ask and I am not sure this would be the proper place.

I'd be delighted to chat with you, if we're ever online at the same time.

 

[Karl R]

I think your experiences with christians have given you some misperceptions about their beliefs. I'll try to answer your questions both with regards to what christians generally believe, as well as my own perspective as a UU (who doesn't always agree with mainstream christian belief).

Standard christian doctrine says anyone can be saved. bicker explained UU beliefs rather well. I don't personally believe in eternal damnation for anyone, but their are a lot of views about the afterlife that don't include eternal damnation. I have no idea which is correct.

Mainstream conservative christians would say that you should stop engaging in casual sex in order to get right with god. Based on my own experience, I would say that casual sex is frequently emotionally unhealthy ... and people like to deny that it's unhealthy for them. On the other hand, I would also say that a steady diet of junk food is unhealthy. I don't see either as being a moral issue.

I used to swear when I belonged to a mainstream christian church, and still do. Sometimes in church. Swearing at someone is often hurtful to them, but an expletive directed toward nobody is a different story. Swearing usually isn't an effective means of communication, but I don't see it as a moral issue.

How is someone an enemy of god? According to mainstream christian doctrine, god loves everyone. Jesus told his followers to love their enemies and show compassion to those who persecute them. If I show compassion to anyone, it's someone that god loves.

UUs and christians of all denominations serve in the military, including Iraq and Afghanistan.

As long as your sexual practices are with consenting adults, your orientation not my concern. The associate minister at my church is openly gay, and open about having AIDS. Liberal christian churches agree with my beliefs, but mainstream churches tend not to.

Whenever anyone tells me that I'm going to hell, I have to wonder when god put them in charge of the guest list. I don't know whether there is a heaven or hell. I have my beliefs, but my beliefs don't determine reality. I live my life according to my beliefs, and I accept that my beliefs may be inaccurate.

 

[Black_Shuck]

Thanks for the up lifting words all I can say is that. I hope that I can find the correct path for me in your group. I still feel kinda iffy and readily expect rejection but atleast if it doesn't work out for me I know my place. I have ordered your book and will receive it later in the month.

 

[EverChanging]

I caution that A Chosen Faith, while I enjoyed it, includes some controversial words on atheism and atheists in foxholes. However, many, maybe even most, UUs are agnostic or even staunchly atheistic, so your borderline atheism, as you described it, should not be a problem.

As for your flaws (or even perceived flaws), it is my belief that grace is universal. It doesn't come from a god, necessarily....It simply is. The universe cannot help what it is. It is better to live in the moment and accept who you are and what you are. It is when we don't do this, I think, that we condemn not only ourselves, but others, too.

 

[Black_Shuck]

I caution that A Chosen Faith, while I enjoyed it, includes some controversial words on atheism and atheists in foxholes. However, many, maybe even most, UUs are agnostic or even staunchly atheistic, so your borderline atheism, as you described it, should not be a problem.

As for your flaws (or even perceived flaws), it is my belief that grace is universal. It doesn't come from a god, necessarily....It simply is. The universe cannot help what it is. It is better to live in the moment and accept who you are and what you are. It is when we don't do this, I think, that we condemn not only ourselves, but others, too.

So the fact that I am what I am and the fact that I have finally come to the point where I am sick of condemning my self and finally accepted who I am with the help of others is something like what the UU is offering? I am ok to be a zoophilie and be in this religion? Am I ok to be skeptical of God and Man alike and be in this religion? I can really be myself without strings? If that is true then I am home.

 

[bicker]

So the fact that I am what I am and the fact that I have finally come to the point where I am sick of condemning my self and finally accepted who I am with the help of others is something like what the UU is offering?

One of our hymns goes, "How could anyone ever tell you you were anything less than beautiful..."

I am ok to be a zoophilie and be in this religion? Am I ok to be skeptical of God and Man alike and be in this religion? I can really be myself without strings? If that is true then I am home.

Quoting our minister...

... what is probably the most commonly repeated untruth regarding our faith [is the assertion that] “Being a Unitarian Universalist means you can believe anything you want.” Nothing could be farther from the truth.

...

These are our seven shared beliefs, our seven clarion calls of conscience and commitment:

Then he quotes the principles I outlined for you earlier.

• We affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• We affirm and promote justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• We affirm and promote acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• We affirm and promote a free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• We affirm and promote the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• We affirm and promote the goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Then he puts them in context.

This is the heart of our faith. We are called not just to affirm these, which is easy. We are called to promote them, actively promote them in our home, our workplace, our neighborhood, our town, our state, our country, and our world. And if our own beliefs are not in sympathy with any of these seven—then this Unitarian Universalist faith is not a place for us.

I can’t be here, you can’t be here, we can’t be here, and simply believe whatever we want. Our own search for truth and meaning must be guided by these seven religious principles.

 

[Black_Shuck]

I understand that, those goals seem honorable and something I do normally the only weakness that I have when i it comes to those seven principles is growing spiritually. I have troubling doing that because I am working against the ideal that God and his servants want nothing short of my absolute destruction. I know its not true but I have a negative mind and things like that creep in so that is why I want some community and I think UU is the right place.