Curses?

[LuminaRosa]

Any advice on good beginners reading material for defending against and / or removing curses?

Is Dion Fortune's Psychic Self-Defense a useful book to study?

As you can probably guess, I'm an utter beginner to this sort of topic... but I read tarot, skillfully and thoughtfully I like to hope, and have noticed that there are times when something feels like its 'possessed' the cards and turned them chaotic or unduly negative...

Could it be something "getting at" me? If so, suggestions...?

Also I there are readings where the querent seems under some sort of shadow, and if there were a ritual we could do together to help clear their psychic environment... (I do use sage etc, but this is more for the physical space and doesn't seem to help what gets "carried in" with the querent)...

Many thanks

 

[Kemble]

I always like to reference the book Sorcery by J. Finely Hurley on this theme, especially the chapter "Minds within Minds" (free link here on google books). That may cover much of the territory you are talking about. If you are looking for practical cursing or sorcery exercises, they are included in the last section of the book. Happy sorceric endeavors.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Well, you could always just do a simple banishing ritual...

 

[Quintessence]

Honestly, there's an infinite number of ways to do anything in spellcraft. If you have a working knowledge of theory and methods, you can come up with practices that fit your path. Best general book I have to recommend for that is Bonewitz' "Real Magick" and specifically the section on the "laws" of magick, plus inspiration from a large compendium of spells where you can examine methods and get a sense of the variety used.

 

[Iti oj]

Sheilds and wards... sheild and wards...sheilda and wards.... hha and in extreme cases paradigm shift them away.

 

[Adramelek]

LuminaRosa, in the realms of Black Magic it has been postulated that a curse can be defeated and/or overcome by an even greater curse. Food for thought. If you think you've been cursed then curse the curse.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[1137]

The only one who can curse you is yourself. You have to defeat the idea that you are cursed, which is not as easy as it sounds. Really it can only be accomplished with further magical studies, learn to control your mind and reality and curses will be absolutely no problem.

 

[LuminaRosa]

Thank you all for your suggestions! Shields and wards sound particularly interesting...! I've done many purification rituals to clear the psyche/space, but have never really thought about protecting the psychically vulnerable state of both myself and the querent during a reading... And Doors, I take your point. I believe that the psyche is more than the mind, and isn't affected by conscious directions... which is where rituals and symbols come in.

 

[Iti oj]

The only one who can curse you is yourself. You have to defeat the idea that you are cursed, which is not as easy as it sounds. Really it can only be accomplished with further magical studies, learn to control your mind and reality and curses will be absolutely no problem.

this is what i meant by paradigm shift. Well said tDoP

 

[Iti oj]

Thank you all for your suggestions! Shields and wards sound particularly interesting...! I've done many purification rituals to clear the psyche/space, but have never really thought about protecting the psychically vulnerable state of both myself and the querent during a reading... And Doors, I take your point. I believe that the psyche is more than the mind, and isn't affected by conscious directions... which is where rituals and symbols come in.

I think i have some simple and effective ones posted some where here.

 

[Mindmaster]

I would argue that proper ritual magic will always work, but few people will do that right. Most people that curse you do so accidentally rather than properly firing one off. Someone who is reasonably trained has nothing to fear since they can over-ride the negativity at will. I would say the best defense is really being able to survey yourself and your surroundings. My first psychic experiences left be confused because I'd often mistake others impressions for my own. Imagine what could happen of this if say you thought someone else's depression was yours or whatever. My youth remains a very painful memory for that reason, but you can see how this possibly more damaging than any actual attack. This is the most likely stuff to happen.

Once someone is good enough with magic to do real harm they're usually experienced enough to realize that you can only lean on the scales of fate a little bit, but in the net everything always balances out. Magicians don't battle one another like Harry Potter. Anything I could take from you you likely could just magic yourself back if you really needed it. The only thing permanent is physical death, but that type of magic I won't talk about here. Some newbie might get ahead of themselves or lucky. (I'm aware of it happening..)

 

[1137]

And Doors, I take your point. I believe that the psyche is more than the mind, and isn't affected by conscious directions... which is where rituals and symbols come in.

Can you elaborate?

 

[LuminaRosa]

Hi Doors... just pure Jungianism verses rational-cognitive approaches to psychological change. Basically: you can't just talk sense into yourself - you need instead to accept the situation and work it through in a total way. Thus, if 'curse' is the descriptor that is most apt, then you need to work with that on its own terms, i.e. with appropriate ritual etc.

 

[ScottySatan]

Hi Doors... just pure Jungianism verses rational-cognitive approaches to psychological change. Basically: you can't just talk sense into yourself - you need instead to accept the situation and work it through in a total way. Thus, if 'curse' is the descriptor that is most apt, then you need to work with that on its own terms, i.e. with appropriate ritual etc.

Hi. I can't resist asking. You say "You can't just talk sense into yourself " and then you go on to explain how to do something that sounds exactly like talking sense into yourself. So I don't get it. Can you clarify please? Is there a reference or anything?

 

[1137]

Hi Doors... just pure Jungianism verses rational-cognitive approaches to psychological change. Basically: you can't just talk sense into yourself - you need instead to accept the situation and work it through in a total way. Thus, if 'curse' is the descriptor that is most apt, then you need to work with that on its own terms, i.e. with appropriate ritual etc.

It's terms are defined by you...

 

[LuminaRosa]

I would say that curse is a meaningful term, defined independently of the individual, deeply embedded in our culture, and for some, a psychological 'fact' whether or not it exists as an empirical 'fact'. I am agnostic on the scientifically testable 'reality' of curses.

So, IMO, to tell someone who believes they are cursed that such things are nonsense or don't exist, in no way helps with their psychological reality, which much be a painful one...

For me personally, I would much rather work with someone who took my feeling of being cursed seriously, as a psychic reality, than with someone who told me I had a false, or foolish, or unreasonable belief and to just get my thinking straight... but this is me and this is why I'm on a forum like this one... because whether or not magick is scientifically verifiable phenomenon, for me it has a deep and resonant psychological truth...

If you're interested, I would highly recommend watching Jung's interview on youtube...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A curse will only effect you if you will it to be so. If your will is stronger than the curse, it will overcome. If your will is weaker, it will succumb.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm sure that's what people would like to believe, at any rate: that you're the one in control. Seems to me the reality of it isn't quite that simple. People don't have near as much control over their behavioral responses as they like to think. And, as LuminaRosa points out, claiming that we do can be patently unhelpful to people dealing with stressful situations, curses or otherwise.

 

[1137]

So, IMO, to tell someone who believes they are cursed that such things are nonsense or don't exist, in no way helps with their psychological reality, which much be a painful one...

Oh but that is where you are wrong! Realizing that it is psychological is what will help you more than belief in supernatural nonsense that you have no control over. Convince yourself that there is some magical new agey force out to harm you and you'll have a much harder time than what it takes to tell yourself "I'm being silly, I'm not cursed".

Of course, taking control is hard for many people, it's easier to just assume that it is out of your control or rely on new age philosophy to "fight" it using magical supernatural forces greater than yourself. To each their own...

For me personally, I would much rather work with someone who took my feeling of being cursed seriously, as a psychic reality, than with someone who told me I had a false, or foolish, or unreasonable belief and to just get my thinking straight... but this is me and this is why I'm on a forum like this one... because whether or not magick is scientifically verifiable phenomenon, for me it has a deep and resonant psychological truth...

Ah but we are taking you seriously, just trying to help you see through your beliefs. Based on what you've said I'd expect you to be able to understand where we are coming from. The belief in "psychic reality" has become a part of your reality because of your deep beliefs in it, and therefore it will be harder to overcome and take control.

At this point I would say you are in the wrong DIR. If not willing to take control of your reality you need to talk to the RHP.

I'm sure that's what people would like to believe, at any rate: that you're the one in control. Seems to me the reality of it isn't quite that simple. People don't have near as much control over their behavioral responses as they like to think. And, as LuminaRosa points out, claiming that we do can be patently unhelpful to people dealing with stressful situations, curses or otherwise.

Just like we need drugs to aid depression or support groups to get sober, right? Oh wait, that's wrong... Most people are actually unwilling to take any control, besides the fact that most love playing the victim they also hate relying on themselves, we are very flawed. Surpassing the free will v determinism in this, we are talking about conscious v unconscious. What do beliefs in curses have in common with depression? Well, we may uunconsciously believe we are cursed or the chemicals in our brains may cause depression, but we can still consciously fight it. Even asking for supernatural spells to fight his supposed curse is consciously making an effort to fight something out of his control, just mixed with a need to believe in the supernatural.

These days I can't figure out why you're in this DIR either.

 

[Quintessence]

You and I have a vastly different understanding of the territory that is humanity, Doors. Frankly, I think you and I have a vastly different understanding of the territory of reality in general. It's probably better to just accept that and move on; a clash of worldviews is not an indication of who belongs here and who doesn't.