Dating Preferences: Bigotry or a Right?

[Twilight Hue]

In another thread, the issue of dating preferences came up, and some posts stated that a heterosexual man's refusal to date a transgendered person because the latter has a penis is transphobic. Since I'm open to reconsidering my positions in light of reasoned arguments, I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

Is having dating preferences such as the above a form of bigotry or a right?

Please discuss.

I don't think so.

Why in the world would a person date someone he or she isn't attracted to, for any reason bigoted or not?

A person would date someone for no other reason than to just prove a counter proposed by another that that person is bigoted or something?

That's a sorry way to use someone just to save face.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The way some states are passing laws that make no sense I would not be surprised to see a law where you cannot choose who you date. Refusing to date someone would be a crime.

 

[Lyndon]

Is this something to do with Catie Jenner having trouble finding a date???

 

[Debater Slayer]

Is this something to do with Catie Jenner having trouble finding a date???

No, it has to do with an argument that came up in another thread.

 

[Baladas]

I would say no, not in this case. At least not typically.
Attraction based on physical sex does not strike me as discriminatory, but it could be in some cases.

A refusal to date someone based on ethnicity has always struck me as extremely prejudiced and distasteful.
A positive preference doesn't really strike a nerve though in most cases.
I suppose this is because I don't really have ethnic/racial preferences for prospective partners.

Ultimately, I am at least equally interested in exactly what a person is like as what they look like.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's funny on how dating is relegated towards surface and appearance issues while dismissing the persons character that would be the real attraction I would think.

Boy today's society is really screwed up on what's really importaint in a person.

I think love transcends whatever appearances will bring long term.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It can be, but it isn't inherently. Such as, I won't date a Conservative Christian because I know it will never work out. Someone who won't date someone from another ethnicity just because they are of that ethnicity, however, is a bigotry against them.
They "whys" behind the decision have a lot to do with it.

 

[Aquitaine]

Bigotry is to be intolerant towards someone because they are different than you. Have a sexual preference that excludes someone is not necessarily bigoted because you are not necessarily intolerant towards them.

^ This.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I'm a virgin 34 year old idiot loser guy who never had a date before (kinda obvious ) and I wish I could, specially after knowing many lovely RFers. Wait, that's a different subject!

Ehhm... I believe when it comes to "preferences", discrimination is never related in its definition as long as it is not specifically implied in actions and expression. Bigotry could be involved, but not as a crime here, again, as long as it is not shown in action and expression in a side dish. I think choosing to not date a transgender is in no way wrong as a preference. I personally, basically and generally, don't mind dating a transgender.

 

[Laika]

In another thread, the issue of dating preferences came up, and some posts stated that a heterosexual man's refusal to date a transgendered person because the latter has a penis is transphobic. Since I'm open to reconsidering my positions in light of reasoned arguments, I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

Is having dating preferences such as the above a form of bigotry or a right?

Please discuss.

Voted "Yes", it is a form of transphobia and bigotry. BUT the key thing here is what you decide to do about it. This doesn't mean you "should" go out with someone you don't want to, but accepting that our preferences are formed and shaped by the discriminatory prejudices of the society we live in gives us an oppurtunity to reconsider our feelings and to explore them. It's not often I admit it, but I consider myself a "sexual racist" in that many of my sexual fantasies do conform to racist sterotypes. [edit: And lets be honest for a second, isn't sex the area of human activity that makes us most honest about our darkest and repressed drives? acceptence is a good thing in that sense because it means you accept yourself as the less than perfect individual we all think we are. if your going to be bad, the bedroom is the best place to do it (consensually). ]. I've had the rather difficult experience of questioning whether my first bisexual crush (unrequited before you ask) was down to racist expectations of black male hypersexuality rather than who he was as a person. either way, I loved him very much and I did make the effort to respect him for who he was and that is what counts.

it is a mistake to treat racist, sexist, transphoic, etc "preferences" as a sin to be punished as ultimately we should act based on our attractions and enjoy them. it isn't healthy to think you should punish yourself for such things as our emotions and fantasies are they often much more honest than our thoughts. you can feel uncomfortable about someone for being part of "them" but you still have the capacity to reconsider whether that is really an accurate response to the situation. there is some degree of choice involved but not a great deal I have to admit because of how deep in the unconscious these behaviours are. Rather than thinking "that's wrong" and trying to punish myself for something that I didn't chose to be, I make the effort to reconsider those fanatasies in a new light and be open to re-thinking my "preferences". If some part of you crosses the divide and stop seeing another person as an object and begins to empathise with what it must be like to be treated that way, its a step in the right direction. we aren't going to treat everyone perfectly equally but we can recognise the role of discriminatory ideologies have in our relationships and seek to change them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is having dating preferences such as the above a form of bigotry or a right?

Do these have to be mutually exclusive? Generally, people have the legal right to be bigots.

Also, it wouldn't be a good idea to require a bigot to be in a relationship with someone they're bigoted against. That seems like it would be a bad thing for all concerned.

I think that some dating preferences like restricting onesself to certain races might not be a matter of deliberately choosing to be racist, but the fact that a person finds certain races unattractive can be an expression of underlying racism.

 

[Sees]

Throws a fork in other LGBT key points - mainly those based on sex attraction not being a choice. Falls apart if positions and statements are just a matter of convenience and want for social acceptance.

 

[crossfire]

Anyone has the right to refuse to have sex with anyone for any reason. No reason is necessary for refusal, and this is non-negotiable. The same could be said about dating.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I would not date someone who uses the same restroom that I do regardless of if they call themselves male, or female or something else.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Voted "Yes", it is a form of transphobia and bigotry. BUT the key thing here is what you decide to do about it. This doesn't mean you "should" go out with someone you don't want to, but accepting that our preferences are formed and shaped by the discriminatory prejudices of the society we live in gives us an oppurtunity to reconsider our feelings and to explore them. It's not often I admit it, but I consider myself a "sexual racist" in that many of my sexual fantasies do conform to racist sterotypes. [edit: And lets be honest for a second, isn't sex the area of human activity that makes us most honest about our darkest and repressed drives? acceptence is a good thing in that sense because it means you accept yourself as the less than perfect individual we all think we are. if your going to be bad, the bedroom is the best place to do it (consensually). ]. I've had the rather difficult experience of questioning whether my first bisexual crush (unrequited before you ask) was down to racist expectations of black male hypersexuality rather than who he was as a person. either way, I loved him very much and I did make the effort to respect him for who he was and that is what counts.

it is a mistake to treat racist, sexist, transphoic, etc "preferences" as a sin to be punished as ultimately we should act based on our attractions and enjoy them. it isn't healthy to think you should punish yourself for such things as our emotions and fantasies are they often much more honest than our thoughts. you can feel uncomfortable about someone for being part of "them" but you still have the capacity to reconsider whether that is really an accurate response to the situation. there is some degree of choice involved but not a great deal I have to admit because of how deep in the unconscious these behaviours are. Rather than thinking "that's wrong" and trying to punish myself for something that I didn't chose to be, I make the effort to reconsider those fanatasies in a new light and be open to re-thinking my "preferences". If some part of you crosses the divide and stop seeing another person as an object and begins to empathise with what it must be like to be treated that way, its a step in the right direction. we aren't going to treat everyone perfectly equally but we can recognise the role of discriminatory ideologies have in our relationships and seek to change them.

Wow, someone with an understanding of the topic! Well said.

By the way, I'm the reason this thread was started. I'm not going to bother discussing the subject anymore because it's a waste of time on this board and I don't need to be getting angry and jumped on by multiple people who don't get it at once.

 

[Mister Emu]

It's funny on how dating is relegated towards surface and appearance issues while dismissing the persons character that would be the real attraction I would think.

You need both.

Voted "Yes", it is a form of transphobia and bigotry. BUT the key thing here is what you decide to do about it.

I consider myself a "sexual racist" in that many of my sexual fantasies do conform to racist sterotypes.

Could your answer perhaps be projection of your own sexual proclivities onto sexuality in general instead of observer's look?

It is possible for a person to reject someone romantically for bigoted reasons, but only they can determine it. Aesthetic preferences, such as genitals or phenotype, are not bigotries. I don't like penises no matter who they are attached to, I'm an equal-opportunist anti-penis sexual.

I mean come on, its 2016, can't we just have our own sexuality without people condemning it?

 

[Laika]

Could your answer perhaps be projection of your own sexual proclivities onto sexuality in general instead of observer's look?

It is possible for a person to reject someone romantically for bigoted reasons, but only they can determine it. Aesthetic preferences, such as genitals or phenotype, are not bigotries. I don't like penises no matter who they are attached to, I'm an equal-opportunist anti-penis sexual.

I mean come on, its 2016, can't we just have our own sexuality without people condemning it?

Type "Attractive Men" or "Attractive women" into Google Image Search (which ever you prefer).

Spoiler

If you try to count the number of results with black or asians, the Results are overwhelmingly "White". It's there right in front of you. I think the results for "attractive women" and marginally more diverse than "attractive men". I tried "attractive men" just a moment ago and I actually found more pictures of cats than black or asians. I'm not quite sure how edward snowden got included in the "attractive women" result though.

That's all the evidence of Sexual Racism you need. So no- I'm not projecting.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Type "Attractive Men" or "Attractive women" into Google Image Search (which ever you prefer).

Spoiler

If you try to count the number of results with black or asians, the Results are overwhelmingly "White". It's there right in front of you. I think the results for "attractive women" and marginally more diverse than "attractive men". I tried "attractive men" just a moment ago and I actually found more pictures of cats than black or asians. I'm not quite sure how edward snowden got included in the "attractive women" result though.

That's all the evidence of Sexual Racism you need. So no- I'm not projecting.

Yeah, and that's just with race. Trans people are a very misunderstood group by society in general. To even say something to the effect of "a heterosexual man being attracted to a transgender woman negates his heterosexuality" shows how little understanding and acceptance of trans people for who we say we are, how we experience ourselves and live our lives there is. Our rights movement is about 20-30 or so years behind gays in terms of social acceptance (that's in no small part due to political conformist gays and lesbians throwing us under the bus at times because "society isn't ready" for us, but it's apparently ready for them, even though a lot of trans people were supporting gay rights since the beginning). (Then you also have issues such as racism and classism. Gay Rights, Inc. is basically owned by upper-class white gay cis males with some upper-class white cis lesbians thrown in. A black trans woman who is working class or poor is entirely at the bottom of the barrel.)

There's also the issue of defining sex/gender by genitals and how that plays into issues of homophobia as well as even sexism. A straight man doesn't want to be seen as "gay" because he may be attracted to a person who has a penis and a straight woman doesn't want to be seen as a "lesbian" because she may be attracted to someone with a vagina. You can do the same with cisgender gays and lesbians and how many of them are treating trans people much the same as the transphobic straights. It causes a sort of anxiety, that seems to center around fears of betraying their designated social identity, emasculation, etc. (Which explains the obscenely high rate of violence towards trans women perpetrated by straight cis males, which is obviously psychosexual at root.)

So it's not only transphobia at play here, it's also homophobia, sexism, distorted/toxic social concepts of masculinity and femininity and so on. It's all intertwined. You'd have to address all those things to solve the problem. Ignoring one is effectively ignoring all.

 

[Mister Emu]

Type "Attractive Men" or "Attractive women" into Google Image Search (which ever you prefer).

Type haweenka soo jiidasho leh into google image search and you'll see who Somalis think are attractive women, type 魅力的な女性 in and you'll which women are attractive to Japanese speakers. We are more likely to find the phenotype we are most familiar with the most attractive.

Racism is the "black oversexualization" stereotype, or the "japanese submissive woman" stereotype. Or not liking black women because of their ancestry and nothing else. Phenotype preference isn't racism it is a natural branch of psychological development.

That's all the evidence of Sexual Racism you need. So no- I'm not projecting.

No, it isn't. You have to show the intent.

 

[Flankerl]

Type "Attractive Men" or "Attractive women" into Google Image Search (which ever you prefer).

Spoiler

If you try to count the number of results with black or asians, the Results are overwhelmingly "White". It's there right in front of you. I think the results for "attractive women" and marginally more diverse than "attractive men". I tried "attractive men" just a moment ago and I actually found more pictures of cats than black or asians. I'm not quite sure how edward snowden got included in the "attractive women" result though.

That's all the evidence of Sexual Racism you need. So no- I'm not projecting.

Okay so the Google image search (which is highly subjective due to your image search history and the language you are searching in, but let's not mind facts for a moment) tells you what exactly?

Who in his or her right mind bases his sexual attraction on which people "Google" or even "Society" thinks are sexually attractive?
The answer is ****ing dumb idiots who can't think for themselves.

<staff edit>


This is the same bull**** as with the too skinny models. Holy crap who cares what kind of bodies those living coathangers have?
Yes the answer is again ****ing dumb idiots who can't think for themselves.

Yeah, and that's just with race. Trans people are a very misunderstood group by society in general. To even say something to the effect of "a heterosexual man being attracted to a transgender woman negates his heterosexuality" shows how little understanding and acceptance of trans people for who we say we are, how we experience ourselves and live our lives there is. Our rights movement is about 20-30 or so years behind gays in terms of social acceptance (that's in no small part due to political conformist gays and lesbians throwing us under the bus at times because "society isn't ready" for us, but it's apparently ready for them, even though a lot of trans people were supporting gay rights since the beginning). (Then you also have issues such as racism and classism. Gay Rights, Inc. is basically owned by upper-class white gay cis males with some upper-class white cis lesbians thrown in. A black trans woman who is working class or poor is entirely at the bottom of the barrel.)

There's also the issue of defining sex/gender by genitals and how that plays into issues of homophobia as well as even sexism. A straight man doesn't want to be seen as "gay" because he may be attracted to a person who has a penis and a straight woman doesn't want to be seen as a "lesbian" because she may be attracted to someone with a vagina. You can do the same with cisgender gays and lesbians and how many of them are treating trans people much the same as the transphobic straights. It causes a sort of anxiety, that seems to center around fears of betraying their designated social identity, emasculation, etc. (Which explains the obscenely high rate of violence towards trans women perpetrated by straight cis males, which is obviously psychosexual at root.)

So it's not only transphobia at play here, it's also homophobia, sexism, distorted/toxic social concepts of masculinity and femininity and so on. It's all intertwined. You'd have to address all those things to solve the problem. Ignoring one is effectively ignoring all.

One day you'll have to accept the fact that not everyone you want to screw wants to screw you due to various reasons, sometimes because you have a biological feature which he/she doesn't like.

People call it life. It's generally a good idea to accept it.