Dating Preferences: Bigotry or a Right?

[Kilgore Trout]

Or perhaps we could define bigotry in this thread and provide legitimate examples of it. I'm feeling confident that I could plausibly explain those away as non-bigotry based on personal preferences.

You go do that. I don't need to as I already know what bigotry actually means, and why sexual preference is clearly not included under any definition of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or perhaps we could define bigotry in this thread and provide legitimate examples of it. I'm feeling confident that I could plausibly explain those away as non-bigotry based on personal preferences.

Here's a real-life example. A church once was going around town and warning businesses of a "transvestic voyeur" who was using public women's restrooms to spy on women. This "transvestic voyeur" was actually a post-op trans-woman.
My dad thinks black people are "great," and that everyone should own one.
Many people around here think there is a Muslim conspiracy going on due to amount of Indian and Pakistanian-owned gas stations in the area. And just because they have the "look," people typically lump them all together as Middle Eastern Muslims (though they tend to use ethnic and religious slurs when describing them).
I saw someone become furious over a fast worker, handling his food, because she was visibly Muslim, and he insisted the girl was a terrorist and was going to poison his food.
I am often warned not to go to the "dark" part of town (their word for a certain spot where more black people live than white) because of all the bad things that will happen to me, but nothing bad has ever happened (except for a couple of near-misses due to careless drivers), but the warnings keep coming.

 

[Acim]

You go do that. I don't need to as I already know what bigotry actually means, and why sexual preference is clearly not included under any definition of it.

I lack a belief in your assertion that you already know.

I have shown in this thread how the sexual preference connected with expressions of intolerance / refusal, do equal to a mild form of bigotry. Intolerance is clearly included under the definition of bigotry. Feel free to provide examples of 'actual bigotry' and I'm feeling confident that I can plausibly show how they are not actual bigotry, but are a matter of preferences, logically associated with that type of person.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I lack a belief in your assertion that you already know.

I have shown in this thread how the sexual preference connected with expressions of intolerance / refusal, do equal to a mild form of bigotry. Intolerance is clearly included under the definition of bigotry. Feel free to provide examples of 'actual bigotry' and I'm feeling confident that I can plausibly show how they are not actual bigotry, but are a matter of preferences, logically associated with that type of person.

At this point, if they can't understand how rejecting a transsexual over our genitals can be a form of bigotry, after what I, @Laika and others pointed out, they're just completely ignoring what we've said, or not understanding it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I might be that commenter you mentioned. Although I didn't mention anything about lesbian sex so it might not be.
Personally (and I apologize to anyone who might feel like this is TMI territory) I don't like toys or anal play. I like the feel of penile penetration and that feeling of physical connection I don't get through toy penetration. This, to me, isn't a statement on gender identity, but a statement on what I activities I feel give me the most sexual fulfillment. And sure, finger stimulation is great too, but I feel like I want the particular sexual act that requires a penis and a vagina in my life and I just won't get that with a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't have a penis. So that is what I will seek in a sexual partner.
I don't feel like I can 'fake it until I make it' with other types of sexual activities I just don't enjoy. I'm not knocking them for other people, but it's just not a desire I share.

Mind you this is strictly about sexual partners. Not relationships as a whole which are much bigger than (and doesn't necessarily include) the sexual component.

No, I don't think it was you. As for the penis thing, I've heard the same from other straight women. On some levels I can understand it and on other levels, it seems like a strange romanticization. (I've felt the same at times and had to address those feelings within myself, by the way.)

 

[Acim]

Here's a real-life example. A church once was going around town and warning businesses of a "transvestic voyeur" who was using public women's restrooms to spy on women. This "transvestic voyeur" was actually a post-op trans-woman.

Simply a preference by the church to not have people spy on other people while using public restrooms.

My dad thinks black people are "great," and that everyone should own one.

Your dad is simply implying a preference for non-black people.

Many people around here think there is a Muslim conspiracy going on due to amount of Indian and Pakistanian-owned gas stations in the area. And just because they have the "look," people typically lump them all together as Middle Eastern Muslims (though they tend to use ethnic and religious slurs when describing them).

This is just simply a preference for more diversity among ownership of businesses.

I saw someone become furious over a fast worker, handling his food, because she was visibly Muslim, and he insisted the girl was a terrorist and was going to poison his food.

This appears to be a non-Muslim customer who would simply prefer to have non-Muslim workers handle their food.

I am often warned not to go to the "dark" part of town (their word for a certain spot where more black people live than white) because of all the bad things that will happen to me, but nothing bad has ever happened (except for a couple of near-misses due to careless drivers), but the warnings keep coming.

Some white people prefer to be around only other white people due to their perception that this will contribute to more safety for all white people.

Just a matter of preference. Not sure how any of these apply to bigotry.

 

[Buttercup]

Just an FYI for anyone interested or in case you've happened to forget the meaning of the words, bigot and bigotry.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigotry

Call me crazy, but I don't think sexual preferences have much to do with the above words.

I don't hate, nor am I intolerant of, trans-gendered persons.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I lack a belief in your assertion that you already know.

A baseless belief.

I have shown in this thread how the sexual preference connected with expressions of intolerance / refusal, do equal to a mild form of bigotry.

Yes, it's easy to score when you move the goal posts at will. Sexual preference itself doesn't imply intolerance or bigotry in any way. No amount of semantical gymnastics will change this.

Intolerance is clearly included under the definition of bigotry.

Indeed it is. Sexual preference itself doesn't imply intolerance or bigotry in any way. No amount of semantical gymnastics will change this.

Feel free to provide examples of 'actual bigotry' and I'm feeling confident that I can plausibly show how they are not actual bigotry, but are a matter of preferences, logically associated with that type of person.

No thanks. I'm only here to point out the incorrectness of the ridiculous notion that sexual preference itself is a form of bigotry. No further semantical gymnastics are required to do this. A simple understanding of what bigotry actually is is sufficient.

 

[Acim]

A baseless belief.

It's a lack of belief.

Yes, it's easy to score when you move the goal posts at will. Sexual preference itself doesn't imply intolerance or bigotry in any way. No amount of semantical gymnastics will change this.

The OP set up the goal posts. Would you like me to re-quote that? Sexual preference, in and of itself, doesn't imply intolerance. The OP assertion did.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It would be nice if the word "preference" wasn't being misused in this thread. A preference isn't an exclusion. For example, my preference ("my type") is for pale, slender white girls with long dark hair who are taller than me (Liv Tyler types, basically) but that doesn't mean I refuse to date anyone who doesn't fit that mold or that I'm not attracted to non-brunettes, non-whites, men, etc.

 

[Acim]

Just an FYI for anyone interested or in case you've happened to forget the meaning of the words, bigot and bigotry.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

Definition = a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group

OP said: a heterosexual man's refusal to date a transgendered person because the latter has a penis

A heterosexual person is a person with a sexual orientation to people of the opposite sex. A transexual female would be of the opposite sex. Therefore refusal to date people of the opposite sex who may have penises conflicts with the definition of heterosexuality. Akin to saying, a heterosexual person who refuses to date African American females because the color of their skin. This is just a preference thing and is in no way a form of bigotry.... according to some in this thread.

 

[Buttercup]

Definition = a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group

OP said: a heterosexual man's refusal to date a transgendered person because the latter has a penis

A heterosexual person is a person with a sexual orientation to people of the opposite sex. A transexual female would be of the opposite sex. Therefore refusal to date people of the opposite sex who may have penises conflicts with the definition of heterosexuality. Akin to saying, a heterosexual person who refuses to date African American females because the color of their skin. This is just a preference thing and is in no way a form of bigotry.... according to some in this thread.

Not even remotely an appropriate analogy by adding in the race angle. Sorry.

By the way, I absolutely understand the plight of trans-gendered people who want to be accepted as they are. There is no question for my allegiance there.

I simply don't view it as bigotry in this instance if someone refuses to have sex with someone for ANY reason.

We have to agree to disagree because I won't change my stance on that aspect.

 

[Sunstone]

When you turn sexual preferences into bigotry, bigotry loses its original meaning, and instead becomes something to be celebrated.

 

[Acim]

Not even remotely an appropriate analogy by adding in the race angle. Sorry.

By the way, I absolutely understand the plight of trans-gendered people who want to be accepted as they are. There is no question for my allegiance there.

I simply don't view it as bigotry in this instance if someone refuses to have sex with someone for ANY reason.

It's not some one, it is some group, or all females with penises are refused as acceptable for dating by SOME heterosexual males. That's the thing is not all heterosexual males would by definition of heterosexuality fall within this seemingly neat little package we've attempted to say is 'sexual preference of heterosexual males.'

Adding in the race angle makes that an appropriate analogy.

 

[Acim]

When you turn sexual preferences into bigotry, bigotry loses its original meaning, and instead becomes something to be celebrated.

How so?

 

[fantome profane]

Maybe even if we don't consider this a form of bigotry perhaps we can still see a common source. Perhaps we can see that sexual attraction, and bigoted feelings both come from the lower mammalian brain.

Just a thought.

 

[Sunstone]

How so?

How many people do you think are going to give up their sexual preferences just because someone labels them a bigot for their preferences? More likely, people will simply decide that "bigotry" is either a meaningless term or perfectly acceptable. The more you push it, the more irrelevant you become to them. And that's very likely the vast majority of people.

 

[Buttercup]

It's not some one, it is some group, or all females with penises are refused as acceptable for dating by SOME heterosexual males. That's the thing is not all heterosexual males would by definition of heterosexuality fall within this seemingly neat little package we've attempted to say is 'sexual preference of heterosexual males.'

Adding in the race angle makes that an appropriate analogy.

Still not bigotry. It's sexual preference and you have to allow people to choose freely where they want their body parts to enter when it's concerning another person.
Misunderstandings can be avoided if honest and frank discussions are had before dating or sexual encounters. It's not that difficult of a premise.

 

[Acim]

How many people do you think are going to give up their sexual preferences just because someone labels them a bigot for their preferences?

None. I think it might prevent people from making bigoted remarks that essentially have nothing to do with their sexual orientation, or if it is argued that it inherently does, it would lead to debates we are having. I really don't see how it is different than someone asking on open forum if it is 'right' or 'bigotry' to state their preference for refusing to date any white people.

 

[Revoltingest]

At this point, if they can't understand how rejecting a transsexual over our genitals can be a form of bigotry....they're just completely ignoring what we've said, or not understanding it.

Only these 2 unacceptable options?
I say we simply disagree with this inappropriate usage of the word, "bigotry".