• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

"Days of Fertility."

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
A famous Talmudic scholar reading an essay composed from a thread that took place here seven years ago, Exegeting Circumcision, could read no further when he came to the exegesis of Genesis 17:12 that interprets the Hebrew word semonat שמנת as the construct form of "fertility" rather than the construct form of the Hebrew word "eight." For this particular scholar, even though the exegesis breaks no rules of Hebrew grammar, the fact that it took the exegesis so far from Jewish tradition made it unreadable.

Is the Torah and its radiation outward via the tradition the final word of God to Israel or is there in the Messianic or apocalyptic view a new revelation, a new form of the word of God?​
Gershom Scholem, The Messianic Idea in Judaism, p. 53.​



John
 
Last edited:

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
A famous Talmudic scholar reading an essay composed from a thread that took place here seven years ago, Exegeting Circumcision, could read no further when he came to the exegesis of Genesis 17:12 that interprets the Hebrew word semonat שמנת as the construct form of "fertility" rather than the construct form of the Hebrew word "eight." For this particular scholar, even though the exegesis breaks no rules of Hebrew grammar, the fact that it took the exegesis so far from Jewish tradition made it unreadable.

Is the Torah and its radiation outward via the tradition the final word of God to Israel or is there in the Messianic or apocalyptic view a new revelation, a new form of the word of God?​
Gershom Scholem, The Messianic Idea in Judaism, p. 53.​

As pointed out by Jewish Professors like Gershom Scholem, and Moshe Idel, the nature of the Hebrew text of the Torah lends itself to multiple readings. The traditional Jewish reading is one viable reading. But it's not the only viable reading such that the exegesis found in the essay, Exegeting Circumcision, doesn't claim to be the correct, or right (as though there's only one) exegesis of the text. It's clearly a new reading of the text made possible by using the so-called new-testament as an exegetical prism.

What the essay makes clear, is that the Hebrew of the Torah text lends itself not only to a unique, newfangled, reading of the text, but, as the essay shows, a reading that (though it would disturb any Jewish reader who finishes the essay) unties knots, or answers to oddities, in the traditional interpretation, therein implying the possibility of seminal elements having been purposely hidden in the traditional reading of the text.

Importantly, the hidden elements don't betray the traditional reading so much as they free themselves from that reading for those who can read them and swallow what they're reading. The traditional reading isn't so much wrong, or incorrect, but merely incomplete.

When the Jewish guardians of the text imply that the traditional rendering of the text is complete and singular, that the reading given to them is the whole truth, that there's nothing hidden, they're distorting their own instructions since the meaning of the "decrees" חקים (required in order dig deeper into the meaning of the text) have, by their own understanding (that is, the understanding of the Jewish sages), been hidden from them by God until the life, times (and perhaps even death), of King Messiah, at which time the new revelation noted by Scholem will have arrived.



John
 
Last edited:

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
When the Jewish guardians of the text imply that the traditional rendering of the text is complete and singular, that the reading given to them is the whole truth, that there's nothing hidden, they're distorting their own instructions since the meaning of the "decrees" חקים (required in order dig deeper into the meaning of the text) have, by their own understanding, been hidden from them until the life, times (and perhaps even death), of King Messiah, at which time the new revelation noted by Scholem will have arrived.

Faithfully exegeted in this new light, the text implies that the epoch when the new revelation will have arrived is called the "Days of Fertility" בן–שמנת ימים; which is significant since the new covenant affected in Genesis chapter 17 (which the sages note appears to be separate from the covenant affected in Genesis chapter 15) states specifically that it will be a covenant related to expansive fertility (Genesis 17:6).

The same consonants translated "eight" (shin-mem-nun-heh) שמנה also translate "fat" or "fertile" (for the latter, see, Gen. 49:20; Num. 13:20; Neh. 9:25 & 35; Ezek. 34:16). Ergo, changing either word to the construct form is merely transforming the final heh to a tav such that the word (shin-mem-nun-tav) שמנת means either "eight" of something, or "fertile" something or other.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Faithfully exegeted in this new light, the text implies that the epoch when the new revelation will have arrived is called the "Days of Fertility" בן–שמנת ימים; which is significant since the new covenant affected in Genesis chapter 17 (which the sages note appears to be separate from the covenant affected in Genesis chapter 15) states specifically that it will be a covenant related to expansive fertility (Genesis 17:6).

The same consonants translated "eight" (shin-mem-nun-heh) שמנה also translate "fat" or "fertile" (for the latter, see, Gen. 49:20; Num. 13:20; Neh. 9:25 & 35; Ezek. 34:16). Ergo, changing either word to the construct form is merely transforming the final heh to a tav such that the word (shin-mem-nun-tav) שמנת means either "eight" of something, or "fertile" something or other.

The grammatical construction in Genesis 17:12 ---- בן–שמנת ימים----- speaks of a person who is "of eight days" (meaning eight days old), or of a person who is "of fertile days" (meaning they've reached fertility). The only other place the phrase ---- בןשמנת ימים---- is used in Genesis, is Genesis 21:4, speaking of the circumcision of Isaac. As it turns out, the statement in Genesis 21:4 is a parenthesis. We know this since the verses before and after verse 4, speak of the birth of Isaac, while verse 4 (in the middle of the verses speaking of Isaac's birth), jumps forward to the time Abraham circumcises him such that if Genesis 17:12 is speaking of reaching the days of fertility we can assume Issac was circumcised when he reached puberty, and even speculate that he was circumcised on the altar of sacrifice as his bar mitzvah a.k.a. the Akedah.



John
 
Last edited:
Top