"Dear Offended Christian, From a Very Tired Christian"

[Sunstone]

I'm trying to figure out how many Christians on RF generally agree with the point of view expressed by John Pavlovitz in this article: "Dear Offended Christian, Form a Very Tired Christian".

Please feel free to read the article and then take the thread poll. Thanks!

NOTE: This thread is in the Christian DIR. Christians only, please.

 

[jeager106]

O.M.G! I read it and LOVED it!.
I'll add to his list that I am tired of some neanderthal males thinking that I am
gay because my fine friend is gay.
Not that I care so much what they think as how they behave and the silent
body language they shout!
My gay friend is also my counselor that helps me in my recovery from the DEADLY
disease of addiction.
He's sober for years and I want that for myself.
Gender identity and/or sexual preference hasn't a thing to do with love and friendship!

 

[atpollard]

Strawman Argument.

He states a false premise and then ridicules it to refute it.
Too bad it only had "Generally Disagree" as a choice.
I would have selected "Pile of Manure" as more accurate of my feelings.

 

[Sunstone]

Strawman Argument.

He states a false premise and then ridicules it to refute it.
Too bad it only had "Generally Disagree" as a choice.
I would have selected "Pile of Manure" as more accurate of my feelings.

What is his false premise? I'm not trying to debate, just trying to clarify.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The article contains some common misconceptions, for example:

* "Jesus never spoke of homosexuality" - Jesus spoke of marriage as being between Adam and Eve, and evangelical Christians believe Jesus inspired the entire Bible besides, which contains 18 non-positive references to homosexuality and no positive references

* "We need to be fed up and tired with judgmental Christians" rather than be patient and love all people, and particularly, fellow Christians

* No one who loves everyone condemns anyone - Jesus had words of condemnation for some, and mature love in part has to do with telling hurting people they need counseling, rebellious people they need repentance, etc.

...and so on.

 

[First Baseman]

I'm generally tired of people constantly offending God. I'm tired of sin and a world full of sin. I'm in no hurry to die but I agree with Paul. It is far better to be in heaven than here on Earth.

 

[Animore]

I absolutely do. The hypocrisy is overwhelmingly ludicrous, and it needs to stop. There is no love in their messages. There is no disclaimer of "Hey, I know I'm a sinner too, but.." or, "I realize we all sin, but I just want to put in my point of view." It's hate, and it's the type of hypocrisy Christ was speaking of.

 

[Glaurung]

The impermissible cannot be made permissible no matter how strong the fads of the age. Sin is sin no matter how rationalised.

Of course, nonetheless, everyone should be treated with respect and charity. It is no one's right to presume on anyone's moral state before God and screaming hellfire at others does indeed miss the point of the Gospel, which is to save rather than condemn. However, the problem is that people such as the writer of the article have (realised or not) denied the need for salvation at all, as they deny the reality of sin against the warnings of Scripture. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

There's no getting around it, salvation is a narrow road and we are to walk upon it with no presumptions. (Especially in regards to others). Matthew 7:4-5 But if anyone believes that they can stand before holiness himself unrepentant of sexual sin and see salvation then they have neither tradition or scripture to validate them, but only itching ears. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The author is right in condemning hypocritical sanctimoniousness. (So does Christ). But he's dead wrong if he thinks that the validity of such a condemnation is licence to deny the sinfulness of illicit relations. It takes unbelievable sophistry to deny the clear reading of scripture on this question.

 

[atpollard]

What is his false premise? I'm not trying to debate, just trying to clarify.

Sorry, I missed your comment.
Others have answered, but just to be clear:

The basic presupposition is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the LGBT Community or activist social agenda and all of the problems that the author names would go away if 'so-called Christians' could just embrace Jesus message of all consuming love for everyone. Then teens would stop feeling bad and cutting themselves (to name just one specific example that the author mentioned).

His false premise is that it is only narrow-minded Christians that have a problem with the activities that define the LGBT community and that their actions are not sin, they are just how we are born. The fact is that mankind are all born sinners. That is the core message of the Bible and the reason why we NEED forgiveness. Their arguments can be applied to any other sin just as easily. Men are born with a natural desire to procreate and an attraction to women, so LUST isn't really a sin it is how we were born. We now know more about cravings and addictions and how they affect the brain, so drunkenness isn't a sin, it is just how we were born. Testosterone makes us naturally aggressive, so violence isn't a sin, it is just how we were born, you all just need to accept that I want to smash your head in when you defy my will and love me anyway. It is how God made me.

No. Sin is sin. The Lamb of God is also the Lion of Judah. Lust is wrong. Drunkenness is wrong. Anger is wrong. All sexual immorality is wrong. Not because I say so, but because GOD SAYS SO. I am unwilling to say that evil is good because it will make some people's desire or even need to sin less troublesome. I don't shout hate at any sinners. Homosexuality does not deserve special punishment. However, God had declared it is wrong and will judge all sin wrong. To lie to anyone about that is to do them a disservice. His sins are no less sin than are mine, he just refuses to call them sin and will answer to God who is the final judge of hearts and intentions. Both his and mine.