Dear theist, what ever your theology is, is God all loving?

[firedragon]

For a moment I thought "wow @firedragon knows Sanskrit...very impressive", but then I thought "probably not, he knows that Sanskrit exists"

Sanskrit is one of my favourite languages. One day, I might study one more language from the region like Hindi or Urdu just to converse. Maybe.

Sai Baba gives discourses mostly in Telegu (Indian language), so it might not have the Sanskrit "vahini" meaning, although Sai Baba does use Sanskrit verses too (and on occasion English, Swedish (I heard myself), Chinese (from hearsay))

Ah. Telungu. I have heard people speak in Malayalam, but I have no clue. I don't think I have heard telungu unless I did some day and am just ignorant so wouldn't recognise it.

You're welcome

 

[stvdv]

I don't think I have heard telungu unless I did some day and am just ignorant so wouldn't recognise it.

IF you had clicked the youtube link a few posts back, with "Love is God", then you probably heard Sai Baba speak Telegu

 

[firedragon]

IF you had clicked the youtube link a few posts back, with "Love is God", then you probably heard Sai Baba speak Telegu

I heard him speak, I didn't know the language. I don't even recognise it. So that why I said it may have heard it, but am ignorant of the language so I feel like I have never heard it.

 

[Vee]

Which verse? What's the scripture? Direct unambiguous verses?

This will be a good exercise. This is the ideal platform to ask such a question and understand where in what scripture it directly says with no hanky panky that God is all loving.

I ask this because this "All Loving" thing is repeatedly said by very many people from most theologies with a super big God like the so called Abrahamic faiths. No disrespect intended. This truth bearer kind of statement should typically be analytical, not preached. As in a verse says that "If you sin and don't repent God still loves you" He will always love you no matter what. You will never be in hell, you will never suffer consequences to your sins. repent or not you are still taken care of. That type of statement shows God is all loving as an example. Will really appreciate scriptural quotes without contradiction.

thank you in advance.

I see the love of God in creation. When I see how everything in the universe works - and there is so much of it we don't even know yet - that makes me believe in God's love.
There are verses in the Bible that back it up like, 1 John 4:8 that says " God is love" but even without those verses, I can see that love all over nature, even in humans with so many flaws.

 

[Alien826]

There is conditional love and there is unconditional love. Unconditional love is a type of love that does not change no matter how good, nasty or perverse we get. Whereas, conditional love is dependent on certain conditions, and is often used to teach and lead us in various directions.

As an example, an older child hits his younger brother with a toy and the younger brother starts to cry. The mother may give unconditional love to her two children. She picks up both and gives them both love. There is nothing learned from this, except that the little brat may think he can get away with this anytime mother is around. The younger brother may think he needs to be hurt to get love. It can get confusing to a person who is trying to understand the cause and affect of love.

The father might choose to give conditional love. He also saw what the older brother did and he spanks him. He told him previously about the consequences, but the little brat did it again, and he had to get what he was promised, or his conditions for love would have been a lie.

Later his Dad tells the older child, I do not like spanking you. If you stop hurting your brother, you and I will go out for ice cream. But if you do it again you will get another spanking. These extra positive conditions for love, help the child become more than a little brat. In the end, whose love was better for the child's long term well being; conditional or unconditional?

Heaven and Hell is a type conditional love that was given to humans. It is still love that is concerned with the future of the soul. Say a child and then as a young adult, learns from these conditions for love and routinely choses the positive path for love. Eventually, the father can stop setting conditions, since his child is mature and is routinely good. Now this changes to unconditional love. Unconditional love is only good for babies, and for wisemen and wise women.

The righteous man living by faith apart from the law is about the unconditional love, that one gets at spiritual maturity, that forms from the conditional love from the law. One then becomes free to follow faith, wherever it goes, and still feel the love from the Holy Spirit of God.

Though I agree with the general drift of your post, I don't agree with your definitions.

Unconditional love would be wanting the best for someone, without making the love itself conditional on good behavior. The perfect parent would apply punishment in a way that benefits the child, and not out of some sense of justice or retribution. To use your example, rewarding both children regardless of behavior would be the opposite of loving, as you stated, but punishment in the sense of correction need not and should not imply that the parent loves either child any less. In fact it may be harder to to punish the child and ignore the inevitable "I hate you" because the well being of the child is paramount, not your personal comfort.

Conditional love on the other hand would be making the love itself dependent on the child's behavior. I would call that "manipulation", not love.

If I was applying this to God, I would expect the same. God wants us to be "good" but realizes that sometimes punishment is necessary, but applies this from a position that puts our well being first. That's what bothers me about the concept of hell, as some religions have it. If there is no way out of hell, God has abandoned some of us. That's not very loving. I'm not claiming that is true of course, I don't have any religious views that get that detailed.

I'll repeat that it's just your definitions I'm challenging, not the overall ideas.

 

[paradox]

As in a verse says that "If you sin and don't repent God still loves you" He will always love you no matter what. You will never be in hell, you will never suffer consequences to your sins. repent or not you are still taken care of

This is good question, it is usually refuted with, god is all loving but also just.

Ending up in hell is special though, it's God being just however it's also said biggest pain in hell is lack of God, I don't know if God still loves those in hell :/
I assume if there is no God in hell then there is also no God's love, however the bible doesn't say much about what's happening in afterlife.

 

[firedragon]

This is good question, it is usually refuted with, god is all loving but also just.

Ending up in hell is special though, it's God being just however it's also said biggest pain in hell is lack of God, I don't know if God still loves those in hell :/
I assume if there is no God in hell then there is also no God's love, however the bible doesn't say much about what's happening in afterlife.

Hmm. Yep. Good thought paradox. Thanks. I have to think about it.

 

[Clara Tea]

Which verse? What's the scripture? Direct unambiguous verses?

This will be a good exercise. This is the ideal platform to ask such a question and understand where in what scripture it directly says with no hanky panky that God is all loving.

I ask this because this "All Loving" thing is repeatedly said by very many people from most theologies with a super big God like the so called Abrahamic faiths. No disrespect intended. This truth bearer kind of statement should typically be analytical, not preached. As in a verse says that "If you sin and don't repent God still loves you" He will always love you no matter what. You will never be in hell, you will never suffer consequences to your sins. repent or not you are still taken care of. That type of statement shows God is all loving as an example. Will really appreciate scriptural quotes without contradiction.

thank you in advance.

Paraphrasing Mark Twain: "Nobody is so worthless that they can't be used as a bad example."

God loves torture (see...God loves you).

 

[Clara Tea]

Hmm. Yep. Good thought paradox. Thanks. I have to think about it.

RE: God loving yet allows hell.

Perhaps in the long run, souls repent in hell and are transported to heaven? If the choice is to burn forever or give up poker night and be with a lot of sanctimonious angels, then many would choose heaven (let me think about my choice for a bit--low heating bill...great conversationalists). God knows the future, and maybe worked out the best possible outcome (allowing the devil and hell)?

What we perceive as a paradox might be a very simple choice for God.

Paraphrasing Mark Twain: "go to heaven for the climate, and go to hell for the companionship."

Twain postulated that harps would be difficult to carry around, and the constant din of discordant music from each angel would be irritating. Perhaps heaven is not as we perceived it?

 

[Clara Tea]

The context for that question is in the OP Daniel. I am not asking for philosophical arguments or opinions about the heading of the topic. I mean you are more than welcome to state your philosophy, I'm just reiterating the OP since you addressed me.

The second apologie to Balthazar Tylcken treating of the eternall predestination and election of God, and of the incarnation, or becoming man and person, of Christ, and concerning the Virgin Mary / written in the yeare 1621, finished the 3. of July by Jacob Behme, also called Teutonicus Philosophus ; Englished by John Sparrow.

"God hated Cain and Esau, and loved Abel and Jacob."

Is God all-loving? No. Loved some, hated others.

Quite frankly, God ignores most, not caring to lift a mighty finger to abate suffering or to hasten the looming spectre of death.

 

[Clara Tea]

This definition does not speak about "Purity"

Then love would have to be on a spectrum scale. . . from a tiny bit of love, to a great deal of love. Frankly, God's love for humankind is shaky, at best.

 

[Clara Tea]

Sanskrit is one of my favourite languages. One day, I might study one more language from the region like Hindi or Urdu just to converse. Maybe.



Ah. Telungu. I have heard people speak in Malayalam, but I have no clue. I don't think I have heard telungu unless I did some day and am just ignorant so wouldn't recognise it.

Eating bean curd, whispering in Farsi.

 

[Clara Tea]

He certainly isn’t portrayed that way. I believe that the cosmic god is generally benevolent but not for us. God operates on a cosmic scale and we barely register.

Just how many sentient beings does God take care of in the universe? Why haven't we received any radio signals from them? Are we really so unimportant that God has to ignore his unique creation?

 

[Clara Tea]

I see the love of God in creation. When I see how everything in the universe works - and there is so much of it we don't even know yet - that makes me believe in God's love.
There are verses in the Bible that back it up like, 1 John 4:8 that says " God is love" but even without those verses, I can see that love all over nature, even in humans with so many flaws.

One of the greatest achievements of nature is balance. Too many predators would kill their food. I suppose that under normal conditions, things are self-balancing.

Now we have mankind's influence, killing most of the life on the planet with Global Warming (denied by those who support oil billionaires), and pollution. I was thinking of moving to the eastern US, but look at all of the polluted water there. Look at all of the nuclear power plants. God made this world, and mankind is destroying it (love of mammon over God).

How can God love us while we so deeply disrespect God's works?

Are the Religious Right correct about rapturing to heaven and leaving behind a toxic waste dump where once God's beautiful nature existed?

In the jungles of Brazil, brazil nut trees shade the rest of the forest (they are huge, and without their shade, the rain forest would roast). Brazil nut shells are too tough for the tree to sprout. The agouti (tiny animal) is the only animal tough enough to open the seeds so that brazil nut trees will sprout. The agouti is almost extinct. The Brazilian rainforest is disappearing, due to excessive logging, and that opens a gap in the canopy of the trees that allows water vapor to leak out, and that dries out and kills the rainforest. The trees of that forest are the "lungs of the world" providing a good portion of the oxygen that we breath, and for the sake of a small amount of money, they are tearing it down.

Haiti is a desert, and the Dominican Republic is a lush tropical paradise and makes its money from tourism. It is the same island (two countries on one island). Haiti's environment was destroyed.

About 95% of the old ice on the poles has melted. The poles are melting from the bottom up. We can't even see the devastation yet, just a hint here or there.

The only thing keeping the earth cool is the ice. Once that completely melts, it will be like a furnace on earth. The Religious Right denies mankind's impact on Global Warming (and the greater intensity of hurricanes like Katrina). Global Warming is getting exponentially worse. As ice melts, it releases carbon dioxide (a greenhouse gas that traps heat). The oceans have a lot of carbon dioxide trapped in the cold waters at the bottom, but it only takes a few degrees Fahrenheit to cause that carbon dioxide to bubble to the surface and overheat the world.

The end of the world, as the bible says, will come like a thief in the night. . . suddenly and without warning (well....we have plenty of warning, but the uneducated don't heed it).

The great reefs are dying off due to rising waters. The poles are melting, and islands at the equator are inundated with water (drowned).

Animals are migrating at the wrong time of year, and beyond their normal ranges. Forests burn, and dry out, and whole species are disappearing.

If we don't love God any better than this, why should God love us?

 

[Clara Tea]

There is conditional love and there is unconditional love. Unconditional love is a type of love that does not change no matter how good, nasty or perverse we get. Whereas, conditional love is dependent on certain conditions, and is often used to teach and lead us in various directions.

As an example, an older child hits his younger brother with a toy and the younger brother starts to cry. The mother may give unconditional love to her two children. She picks up both and gives them both love. There is nothing learned from this, except that the little brat may think he can get away with this anytime mother is around. The younger brother may think he needs to be hurt to get love. It can get confusing to a person who is trying to understand the cause and affect of love.

The father might choose to give conditional love. He also saw what the older brother did and he spanks him. He told him previously about the consequences, but the little brat did it again, and he had to get what he was promised, or his conditions for love would have been a lie.

Later his Dad tells the older child, I do not like spanking you. If you stop hurting your brother, you and I will go out for ice cream. But if you do it again you will get another spanking. These extra positive conditions for love, help the child become more than a little brat. In the end, whose love was better for the child's long term well being; conditional or unconditional?

Heaven and Hell is a type conditional love that was given to humans. It is still love that is concerned with the future of the soul. Say a child and then as a young adult, learns from these conditions for love and routinely choses the positive path for love. Eventually, the father can stop setting conditions, since his child is mature and is routinely good. Now this changes to unconditional love. Unconditional love is only good for babies, and for wisemen and wise women.

The righteous man living by faith apart from the law is about the unconditional love, that one gets at spiritual maturity, that forms from the conditional love from the law. One then becomes free to follow faith, wherever it goes, and still feel the love from the Holy Spirit of God.

Some states have laws preventing spanking. Some people feel that spanking is not necessary to raise a child (contrary to Proverb 13:24).

 

[Clara Tea]

Though I agree with the general drift of your post, I don't agree with your definitions.

Unconditional love would be wanting the best for someone, without making the love itself conditional on good behavior. The perfect parent would apply punishment in a way that benefits the child, and not out of some sense of justice or retribution. To use your example, rewarding both children regardless of behavior would be the opposite of loving, as you stated, but punishment in the sense of correction need not and should not imply that the parent loves either child any less. In fact it may be harder to to punish the child and ignore the inevitable "I hate you" because the well being of the child is paramount, not your personal comfort.

Conditional love on the other hand would be making the love itself dependent on the child's behavior. I would call that "manipulation", not love.

If I was applying this to God, I would expect the same. God wants us to be "good" but realizes that sometimes punishment is necessary, but applies this from a position that puts our well being first. That's what bothers me about the concept of hell, as some religions have it. If there is no way out of hell, God has abandoned some of us. That's not very loving. I'm not claiming that is true of course, I don't have any religious views that get that detailed.

I'll repeat that it's just your definitions I'm challenging, not the overall ideas.

Someone should invent a conditional love that doesn't need conditions.

At what point do we stop ourselves from spanking our neighbor's kids (for their sake, of course)?

 

[stvdv]

This definition does not speak about "Purity"

Then love would have to be on a spectrum scale. . . from a tiny bit of love, to a great deal of love. Frankly, God's love for humankind is shaky, at best.

That is totally your imagination, but makes no sense, and you can't logically conclude this from my quote

I said:
the definition does not speak about "Purity"

Because

the definition speaks about "lack of impurity"

 

[stvdv]

I heard him speak, I didn't know the language. I don't even recognise it. So that why I said it may have heard it, but am ignorant of the language so I feel like I have never heard it.

Aha, understood.

 

[Willamena]

Which verse? What's the scripture? Direct unambiguous verses?

This will be a good exercise. This is the ideal platform to ask such a question and understand where in what scripture it directly says with no hanky panky that God is all loving.

I ask this because this "All Loving" thing is repeatedly said by very many people from most theologies with a super big God like the so called Abrahamic faiths. No disrespect intended. This truth bearer kind of statement should typically be analytical, not preached. As in a verse says that "If you sin and don't repent God still loves you" He will always love you no matter what. You will never be in hell, you will never suffer consequences to your sins. repent or not you are still taken care of. That type of statement shows God is all loving as an example. Will really appreciate scriptural quotes without contradiction.

thank you in advance.

Watch this week's Orville.

 

[firedragon]

Watch this week's Orville.

I don't have the patience to watch week on week. But maybe I will.