Debate About a Plan to Eliminate Private Vehicles

[Brickjectivity]

Spoiler: Survival Lilly video about a plan to eliminate personal autos

I have a source video above (which you need not watch) which says that there is a plan among the very wealthy and those in influential circles to discourage personal ownership of vehicles. I myself didn't watch the whole video, however I would like to discuss this and whether its a good idea or is a scary idea. The video says its a loss of freedom. I am sympathetic to this view, however perhaps some people feel comfortable with little to no private car ownership. Perhaps there are reasons why autos should be discouraged?

From the video: In Europe it currently costs about 850 Euro (she says) to get a driving license. Lately Germany is offering drivers to trade that in for a permanent train pass. A clip is shown of someone at a podium talking about turning highways in LA into public parks. Sounds nice.

USA citizens can almost survive without autos, but we often have long distances between ourselves and our jobs and markets. Everything is sprawled. Partly this is because autos have been available, and so towns have fallen into disuse. I can imagine towns reviving in USA once we can no longer get to the next city and back home inside 2 hours. We'll have to shop in town. That's the possible upside that I can imagine.

Public transport here is minimal and is not hygenic or comfortable, does not feel safe either. Taxis are cost prohibitive. They are not for daily use, because the distances are long. Its not 1 mile but 20 at least in each direction. (32 km x 2) That is a hefty taxi charge to pay daily.

Autos double as lockers, which we often cannot get at the workplace or where we shop; but I'm sure that if personal cars are greatly reduced that public lockers will become more common due to being more of a necessity. At the moment I can barely imagine surviving without a car. Its like having no shoes.


So I'm putting up a vote, and its for people who live anywhere not just EU or USA.

 

[ChristineM]

It depends where you live, city dwellers with access to various public transport sevices shouldn't have a problem.
Rural dwellers would literally be left stranded.

Personally I'm a rural dweller so i have a stake in keeping private cars. Why?

The nearest small supermarket is 10km away, the nearest large supermarket is 25km away. There is no bus or train service within 20km. I needed a taxi to take me to the opticians over 40km away cost €422 for a return journey. I will soon need to go to a specialist hospital over 80km away, a taxi is likely to cost close to €1000.

The closest airport us 110km away, there is a train service to literally just behind the closest large supermarket


I'm sure you see why i say rural dwellers would be left stranded

 

[Stevicus]

Spoiler: Survival Lilly video about a plan to eliminate personal autos

I have a source video above (which you need not watch) which says that there is a plan among the very wealthy and those in influential circles to discourage personal ownership of vehicles. I myself didn't watch the whole video, however I would like to discuss this and whether its a good idea or is a scary idea. The video says its a loss of freedom. I am sympathetic to this view, however perhaps some people feel comfortable with little to no private car ownership. Perhaps there are reasons why autos should be discouraged?

From the video: In Europe it currently costs about 850 Euro (she says) to get a driving license. Lately Germany is offering drivers to trade that in for a permanent train pass. A clip is shown of someone at a podium talking about turning highways in LA into public parks. Sounds nice.

USA citizens can almost survive without autos, but we often have long distances between ourselves and our jobs and markets. Everything is sprawled. Partly this is because autos have been available, and so towns have fallen into disuse. I can imagine towns reviving in USA once we can no longer get to the next city and back home inside 2 hours. We'll have to shop in town. That's the possible upside that I can imagine.

Public transport here is minimal and is not hygenic or comfortable, does not feel safe either. Taxis are cost prohibitive. They are not for daily use, because the distances are long. Its not 1 mile but 20 at least in each direction. (32 km x 2) That is a hefty taxi charge to pay daily.

Autos double as lockers, which we often cannot get at the workplace or where we shop; but I'm sure that if personal cars are greatly reduced that public lockers will become more common due to being more of a necessity. At the moment I can barely imagine surviving without a car. Its like having no shoes.


So I'm putting up a vote, and its for people who live anywhere not just EU or USA.

I don't think any such proposal would ever fly in America. People love their cars too much. People want even more cars - and more square footage of asphalt to drive them on. This has even become more an issue as people move further away from the cities and even the suburbs - into the semi-rural ex-urbs. Yet they still have to commute daily into the cities. Unless they come up with a serious expansion of public transportation systems, it's just not going to work.

If anything, people would be compelled to move back into the cities, in which case the suburbs and ex-urbs would die out. A lack of affordable housing and homelessness already plague our cities (and a lot of homeless live in their cars).

 

[Twilight Hue]

Spoiler: Survival Lilly video about a plan to eliminate personal autos

I have a source video above (which you need not watch) which says that there is a plan among the very wealthy and those in influential circles to discourage personal ownership of vehicles. I myself didn't watch the whole video, however I would like to discuss this and whether its a good idea or is a scary idea. The video says its a loss of freedom. I am sympathetic to this view, however perhaps some people feel comfortable with little to no private car ownership. Perhaps there are reasons why autos should be discouraged?

From the video: In Europe it currently costs about 850 Euro (she says) to get a driving license. Lately Germany is offering drivers to trade that in for a permanent train pass. A clip is shown of someone at a podium talking about turning highways in LA into public parks. Sounds nice.

USA citizens can almost survive without autos, but we often have long distances between ourselves and our jobs and markets. Everything is sprawled. Partly this is because autos have been available, and so towns have fallen into disuse. I can imagine towns reviving in USA once we can no longer get to the next city and back home inside 2 hours. We'll have to shop in town. That's the possible upside that I can imagine.

Public transport here is minimal and is not hygenic or comfortable, does not feel safe either. Taxis are cost prohibitive. They are not for daily use, because the distances are long. Its not 1 mile but 20 at least in each direction. (32 km x 2) That is a hefty taxi charge to pay daily.

Autos double as lockers, which we often cannot get at the workplace or where we shop; but I'm sure that if personal cars are greatly reduced that public lockers will become more common due to being more of a necessity. At the moment I can barely imagine surviving without a car. Its like having no shoes.


So I'm putting up a vote, and its for people who live anywhere not just EU or USA.

Once I saw the ads for common pick up trucks to be sold for six figures new, it kind of makes sense that the goal is to get private vehicles out of the hands of the commoners and only for the wealthy.

I seriously think people are trying to regress the society back into the horse and buggy days. Granted it won't affect the Amish.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't think any such proposal would ever fly in America. People love their cars too much. People want even more cars - and more square footage of asphalt to drive them on. This has even become more an issue as people move further away from the cities and even the suburbs - into the semi-rural ex-urbs. Yet they still have to commute daily into the cities. Unless they come up with a serious expansion of public transportation systems, it's just not going to work.

If anything, people would be compelled to move back into the cities, in which case the suburbs and ex-urbs would die out. A lack of affordable housing and homelessness already plague our cities (and a lot of homeless live in their cars).

That's a good point as the only way for poor to survive and at least have a little money in one's pockets is living in one's vehicle as opposed to the outlandish outrageous prices charged for rentals and home ownership.

 

[Estro Felino]

That would be terrific in Europe.

Not in the USA whee distances are unimaginable.


But people here take the car even to go to the park.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Once I saw the ads for common pick up trucks to be sold for six figures new, it kind of makes sense that the goal is to get private vehicles out of the hands of the commoners and only for the wealthy.

I seriously think people are trying to regress the society back into the horse and buggy days. Granted it won't affect the Amish.

Its why I mention the increasing difficulty of buying a car, but the thought is conspiratorial. More likely its not some complex plan to take cars away but planned obsolescence run amok. I think the too-big-to-fail manufacturers don't want durable cars out there competing with their high cost new cars. Foreign manufacturers are making trouble for them however. I have heard of a 12,000$ Toyota pickup on the way, should it be permitted in the USA; but I have seen on. Pickups are 30,000 cheapest, unless you can get a used one; however many of the used (since 2005) are of poor quality. You have to be careful which models you buy. In other words its a junk market. If the complexity and junkiness of cars is part of a plan to take cars away, well that is a very complex plan indeed. Instead the incompetence of the big manufacturers (leading to the 2008 bailout) is explanation enough.

But I wouldn't put it behind the influential to roll that into their plans, to make it part of their plans.

I don't think any such proposal would ever fly in America. People love their cars too much. People want even more cars - and more square footage of asphalt to drive them on. This has even become more an issue as people move further away from the cities and even the suburbs - into the semi-rural ex-urbs. Yet they still have to commute daily into the cities. Unless they come up with a serious expansion of public transportation systems, it's just not going to work.

If anything, people would be compelled to move back into the cities, in which case the suburbs and ex-urbs would die out. A lack of affordable housing and homelessness already plague our cities (and a lot of homeless live in their cars).

In America? It would be a hard sell, and situations perpetuate themselves. Everything reproduces in a complex imprint/mold/remake process analogous to inertia. We have ghost towns because of cars and long distances, and we need cars because of the ghost towns and long distances. The current situation was, however part of a plan begun in early 20th century by the big manufacturers. They wanted people in their cars, and so they lobbied to make it a world that needed individual autos. Those same manufacturers became of central import in the economy, hence a self perpetuating situation.

It depends where you live, city dwellers with access to various public transport sevices shouldn't have a problem.
Rural dwellers would literally be left stranded.

Personally I'm a rural dweller so i have a stake in keeping private cars. Why?

The nearest small supermarket is 10km away, the nearest large supermarket is 25km away. There is no bus or train service within 20km. I needed a taxi to take me to the opticians over 40km away cost €422 for a return journey. I will soon need to go to a specialist hospital over 80km away, a taxi is likely to cost close to €1000.

The closest airport us 110km away, there is a train service to literally just behind the closest large supermarket


I'm sure you see why i say rural dwellers would be left stranded

Sounds difficult.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Spoiler: Survival Lilly video about a plan to eliminate personal autos

I have a source video above (which you need not watch) which says that there is a plan among the very wealthy and those in influential circles to discourage personal ownership of vehicles. I myself didn't watch the whole video, however I would like to discuss this and whether its a good idea or is a scary idea. The video says its a loss of freedom. I am sympathetic to this view, however perhaps some people feel comfortable with little to no private car ownership. Perhaps there are reasons why autos should be discouraged?

From the video: In Europe it currently costs about 850 Euro (she says) to get a driving license. Lately Germany is offering drivers to trade that in for a permanent train pass. A clip is shown of someone at a podium talking about turning highways in LA into public parks. Sounds nice.

USA citizens can almost survive without autos, but we often have long distances between ourselves and our jobs and markets. Everything is sprawled. Partly this is because autos have been available, and so towns have fallen into disuse. I can imagine towns reviving in USA once we can no longer get to the next city and back home inside 2 hours. We'll have to shop in town. That's the possible upside that I can imagine.

Public transport here is minimal and is not hygenic or comfortable, does not feel safe either. Taxis are cost prohibitive. They are not for daily use, because the distances are long. Its not 1 mile but 20 at least in each direction. (32 km x 2) That is a hefty taxi charge to pay daily.

Autos double as lockers, which we often cannot get at the workplace or where we shop; but I'm sure that if personal cars are greatly reduced that public lockers will become more common due to being more of a necessity. At the moment I can barely imagine surviving without a car. Its like having no shoes.


So I'm putting up a vote, and its for people who live anywhere not just EU or USA.

People should have the freedom to buy whatever they want. Some people today choose to live without a car, good for them, some others want a car and if they can afford it should get one if they want one. It is not a matter of other people deciding if we can have them or not.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That would be terrific in Europe.

Not in the USA whee distances are unimaginable.


But people here take the car even to go to the park.

I sometimes fantasize about how peaceful and nice it would be if everybody had bicycles and peddled to work and back. The whole thruway would be nothing but bicyclists and their bells admist one another chatting and talking to each other as they ride to work.

Only problem with my pleasant sunshine fresh air, blue sky fantasy is when the weather turns and the snow and the blizzards will put quite a significant damper to that wonderful beautiful pleasant scenario.

 

[Brickjectivity]

That would be terrific in Europe.

Not in the USA whee distances are unimaginable.


But people here take the car even to go to the park.

Europe is young. Its policy can turn on the head of a pin. You can legislate shorter distances into existence.


*addition* What I mean is that the EU government is not burdened by precedent as much as if it had been around a long time. I envision law like a long thing rope without much form; but a precendent adds a knot in it, giving it a more rigid form. Over time it becomes more like a solid and less like a rope.

 

[ChristineM]

Sounds difficult.

Not with a car, without one it would be impossible

 

[Brickjectivity]

Not with a car, without one it would be impossible

What if several people owned a car together to share? Timeshare.

 

[Yerda]

There have been proposals for decades for national and civic transport infrastructure to be improved to the extent that personal car travel is a waste of money and effort. I'd like that.

I'd also like to send every owner of stupid big cars on a one way journey to Mars. UK cities are not designed for these dumb American style vehicles. I'd tax them so hard that only those with exceptional commitment to proving how large a festering anus they are would consider owning them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think banning personal ownership of cars is helpful but the US is really a mess. I have never learned to drive and so don't have a car. I live in a major city but even the cities here in the US revolve around cars. Everything here benefits cars and screws over everyone else, from those on foot to cyclists. It's deadly here to be a pedestrian or ride a bike. Hell, in this dump, many roads don't even have curbs or sidewalks. It goes back to the car companies influencing politicians and culture with money and advertising in the mid-20th century and various vested interests are still influencing city, street and road design in the US and Canada.

America could really take a cue in now Europe designs streets and roads. It's way too dangerous here since cars are favored in traffic laws, and it's only practical to discourage car usage in major cities. A lot of this is discrimination against the lower class and poor, too, as public transit is stigmatized as something for the less fortunate and you're looked down on for not having a car. Cars are seen as status symbols in the US tied to the rite of passage of being an adult. Again, it's because of how car companies sold their products to the young decades ago. It's a hard thing to break.

I just know the streets in my current city are terrifying and I'm scared to even cross the street most times I'm out now. People are increasingly callous and careless towards others. I can't count the times I've almost been hit just in the last couple of years. It's just getting worse and worse. Plus, there's a lot of foolish people moving here driving up the population so the city is expanding at a rate that it can't handle and the streets are very congested. We have an outdated bus service and that's it. They refuse to spend the money on a metro system which is badly needed. But want to pretend they're a modern city. Columbus doesn't know what it wants to be.

I want to move to Europe so badly and this issue is a big reason why. You shouldn't need a car in any city. It's a wasted expense in a city when they should provide good public transit for all (unless you just have to have a car).

 

[Brickjectivity]

I sometimes fantasize about how peaceful and nice it would be if everybody had bicycles and peddled to work and back. The whole thruway would be nothing but bicyclists and their bells admist one another chatting and talking to each other as they ride to work.

Only problem with my pleasant sunshine fresh air, blue sky fantasy is when the weather turns and the snow and the blizzards will put quite a significant damper to that wonderful beautiful pleasant scenario.

This is way out there, but you *can* simply shut down when it snows, aside from hospitals.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

UK cities are not designed for these dumb American style vehicles.

Giant SUVS and big raised up trucks should be banned in general. It's actually a way for car manufacturers to get around regulations here. They're the most dangerous types of vehicles in accidents for both those in the vehicle and outside of it or in a regular car. People literally can't see over the hood of these unnecessary beasts. If you're a pedestrian and hit by them, you're more likely to die than if you're hit by a regular car like a sedan.

 

[Stevicus]

In America? It would be a hard sell, and situations perpetuate themselves. Everything reproduces in a complex imprint/mold/remake process analogous to inertia. We have ghost towns because of cars and long distances, and we need cars because of the ghost towns and long distances. The current situation was, however part of a plan begun in early 20th century by the big manufacturers. They wanted people in their cars, and so they lobbied to make it a world that needed individual autos. Those same manufacturers became of central import in the economy, hence a self perpetuating situation.

I always wanted a jetpack since I was a kid. Or like those cars in the Jetsons (which fold up into a briefcase).

It's kind of a double-edged sword. People love cars, but they hate traffic.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't think banning personal ownership of cars is helpful but the US is really a mess. I have never learned to drive and so don't have a car. I live in a major city but even the cities here in the US revolve around cars. Everything here benefits cars and screws over everyone else, from those on foot to cyclists. It's deadly here to be a pedestrian or ride a bike. Hell, in this dump, many roads don't even have curbs or sidewalks. It goes back to the car companies influencing politicians and culture with money and advertising in the mid-20th century and various vested interests are still influencing city, street and road design in the US and Canada.

America could really take a cue in now Europe designs streets and roads. It's way too dangerous here since cars are favored in traffic laws, and it's only practical to discourage car usage in major cities. A lot of this is discrimination against the lower class and poor, too, as public transit is stigmatized as something for the less fortunate and you're looked down on for not having a car. Cars are seen as status symbols in the US tied to the rite of passage of being an adult. Again, it's because of how car companies sold their products to the young decades ago. It's a hard thing to break.

I just know the streets in my current city are terrifying and I'm scared to even cross the street most times I'm out now. People are increasingly callous and careless towards others. I can't count the times I've almkst been hit just in the last couple of years. It's just getting worse and worse. Plus, there's a lot of foolish people moving here driving up the population so the city is expanding at a rate that it can't handle and the streets are very congested. We have an outdated bus service and that's it. They refuse to spend the money on a metro system which is badly needed. But want to pretend they're a modern city. Columbus doesn't know what it wants to be.

I want to move to Europe so badly and this issue is a big reason why. You shouldn't need a car in any city. It's a wasted expense in a city when they should provide good public transit for all (unless you just have to have a car).

Awww, SaintFrank, its tough. I'm sorry. Yes its dangerous to cross streets. Cars are expensive too. It would be nice not to need a car and the insurance bills and repair bills.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I am surprised at the current vote outcome. I really thought there would be more against this policy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Giant SUVS and big raised up trucks should be banned in general. It's actually a way for car manufacturers to get around regulations here. They're the most dangerous types of vehicles in accidents for both those in the vehicle and outside of it or in a regular car. People literally can't see over the hood of these unnecessary beasts. If you're a pedestrian and hit by them, you're more likely to die than if you're hit by a regular car like a sedan.

I'm the kind of person who likes to carry my home with me which of course, would require a large vehicle like a raised roof van.