DECENCY, STATUES, AND GEORGE WASHINGTON – WHY TRUMP IS WRONG ABOUT THEM ALL

[Akivah]

Hitler and the Nazis rose to power legally (for the most part). So, how did they commit treason against Germany?

trea·son
ˈtrēzən/
noun

1. the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Yes, and the Nazis overthrew the Republic in Germany.

Since you don't seem to like the word treason applied to the Nazis, what would you agree to?

 

[Valjean]

White is a race.

There is Asian culture. There is Black culture. No?

So why the discrimination towards "White culture"?

White here is not to signify skin color but an ethic group.

No!
There are lots of Asian cultures; lots of black cultures; lots of white cultures.
Culture is a learned survival strategy. Any racial component is purely coincedental.

 

[leibowde84]

George Bernard Shaw had an interesting perspective:
You could be intelligent, Nazi, or decent, but you cannot be all three.

It a person were intelligent and Nazi, he was not decent; if decent and Nazi, he was not intelligent, and if decent and intelligent, he was no Nazi.

They are explicitly attacking me because I was born Jewish. People are known by the company they keep. My answer to their prejudice and hate is this - you are losing because the country is becoming united against you and your ultimate loss is inevitable.

View attachment 18598

My mom is Irish Catholic, but my Dad is a Russian Jew. Does that make me non-white according to them?

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, and the Nazis overthrew the Republic in Germany.

Since you don't seem to like the word treason applied to the Nazis, what would you agree to?

They didn't overthrow the government in Germany. They didn't take over the government by force. They won elections and Hitler was appointed Chancellor legally. That is why I don't see them as traitors, legally speaking.

 

[suncowiam]

To assert that, for example, cultural equivalence between Chinese and Japanese people for one and African-Americans and various African groups is laughable. African Tribes. Afar, Amhara, Anlo-Ewe, Ashanti, Bakongo, Bambara, Bemba, Berber, Bobo, Bushmen/San, Chewa, Dogon, Fang, Fon, Fulani, Ibos, Kikuyu (Gikuyu), Maasai, Mandinka, Pygmy, Samburu, Senufo, Tuareg, Wolof, Yoruba, Zulu

So, again, to me the statement that there is a "white culture" is racist. There is no such thing as "white culture" outside of the claims of racist bigots. And I have no problems, as a white man, discriminating against racists.

Yes, but it's ok to say Asian Culture or Black Culture. We understand that in the context of location.

Why do you assert that its racist to hear "White Culture?" You should validate your premise first then your conclusion would then also be validated.

My point is that there is a double standard here. Why is this justified?

 

[suncowiam]

No!
There are lots of Asian cultures; lots of black cultures; lots of white cultures.
Culture is a learned survival strategy. Any racial component is purely coincedental.

Ok, fine. I can agree with that.

But that is besides the point with my previous conversation.

The point is that there can be white culturessssss.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, we should distinguish between good and bad events. But all history should be kept. I don't agree that we should honor confederate statues by placing them in front of our court houses. They can be placed in museums with proper context. It is context that matters most.

I agree with this. My point all along has been to put these statues in museums.

There has been a notion that there is no white culture or heritage. That is what I was trying to discuss with my trite comment. In that essence, then it is not fair to white folks not to be able to continue on such culture or heritage.

I'm just saying, there are some in the alt-right that just wants to defend their culture without the notion of being superior.

Just like you stated there are some in the BLM that can be violent and unruling...

I still don't understand what "white culture" is. There is southern culture for sure, which is very different than northern culture. There is city culture that is very different than rural culture. I just don't see what white culture is.

 

[Valjean]

I agree with this. My point all along has been to put these statues in museums.
I still don't understand what "white culture" is. There is southern culture for sure, which is very different than northern culture. There is city culture that is very different than rural culture. I just don't see what white culture is.

Perhaps it's more akin to a tribal or political identity than to "culture" in the anthropological sense.

 

[suncowiam]

I agree with this. My point all along has been to put these statues in museums.
I still don't understand what "white culture" is. There is southern culture for sure, which is very different than northern culture. There is city culture that is very different than rural culture. I just don't see what white culture is.

I personally don't care what its definition is. That's not for me to decide nor is the point of my topic.

But my point is, if someone or population wanted to define it then they should have the freedom to without being discriminated against.

 

[leibowde84]

Perhaps it's more akin to a tribal or political identity than to "culture" in the anthropological sense.

But, there is no tribal or political white identity. There is no consensus (or even close to a consensus) on political issues. And, certainly the tribal identity doesn't exist among all whites. I just see it as kind of absurd to think that the majority of whites agree on anything.

 

[leibowde84]

I personally don't care what its definition is. That's not for me to decide nor is the point of my topic.

But my point is, if someone or population wanted to define it then they should have the freedom to without being discriminated against.

But, the white population doesn't want to define it or honor it. Not even a simple majority of white people are interested in it. So, what are they even referring to?

 

[leibowde84]

I personally don't care what its definition is. That's not for me to decide nor is the point of my topic.

But my point is, if someone or population wanted to define it then they should have the freedom to without being discriminated against.

It's almost as if they are trying to artificially create a cultural identity that just doesn't exist in any real way. Are they really referring to rural white culture? Because, that is a real thing I think.

 

[suncowiam]

But, the white population doesn't want to define it or honor it. Not even a simple majority of white people are interested in it. So, what are they even referring to?

You're generalizing.

Maybe you don't, but there are some that do.

But they get labeled a racist for doing so. Again, my point is that this is a double standard.

 

[suncowiam]

It's almost as if they are trying to artificially create a cultural identity that just doesn't exist in any real way. Are they really referring to rural white culture? Because, that is a real thing I think.

No. I'm saying that if a White person or White population wanted to define White Culture, then they should be able to without discrimination.

 

[leibowde84]

You're generalizing.

Maybe you don't, but there are some that do.

But they get labeled a racist for doing so. Again, my point is that this is a double standard.

Again, I'm asking what they are honoring? What is white heritage?

 

[leibowde84]

No. I'm saying that if a White person or White population wanted to define White Culture, then they should be able to without discrimination.

They are free to define it, but they haven't done so. In other words, if they define white culture and defend it, that is fine. But, now, they are trying to defend something that doesn't exist, merely claiming they are being attacked for it. They are being attacked for the statements from their organizer leader (of the Alt-Right) that claims that white privilege is a good thing.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, but it's ok to say Asian Culture or Black Culture. We understand that in the context of location.

Why do you assert that its racist to hear "White Culture?" You should validate your premise first then your conclusion would then also be validated.

My point is that there is a double standard here. Why is this justified?

Honestly, I don't think black culture, asian culture, or white culture actually exist. Black pride is OK because they are a race that has been continually discriminated against. Same thing with gay pride. But, white pride? Whites have never been discriminated because of the color of their skin. So, where does this come from?

 

[suncowiam]

They are free to define it, but they haven't done so. In other words, if they define white culture and defend it, that is fine. But, now, they are trying to defend something that doesn't exist, merely claiming they are being attacked for it. They are being attacked for the statements from their organizer leader (of the Alt-Right) that claims that white privilege is a good thing.

Then we are in agreement there. They should not be labeled racists because they were White and wanted to define their culture.

I'm not discussing white privilege is a good thing. I agree that white privilege, black privilege or asian privilege are bad things.

 

[suncowiam]

Honestly, I don't think black culture, asian culture, or white culture actually exist. Black pride is OK because they are a race that has been continually discriminated against. Same thing with gay pride. But, white pride? Whites have never been discriminated because of the color of their skin. So, where does this come from?

Uhm. I'm Asian and I will explicitly say that it exists. I have Vietnamese culture and I share much of it with other Asians that are non-Vietnamese.

If you don't want to define your own culture, that's for you to suggest. Others should not feel discriminated at for be able to define theirs.

 

[Valjean]

But, there is no tribal or political white identity. There is no consensus (or even close to a consensus) on political issues. And, certainly the tribal identity doesn't exist among all whites. I just see it as kind of absurd to think that the majority of whites agree on anything.

Understood. I'm speaking of specific status communities, <~150 people, who sometimes find common cause and band together into larger, political tribes.