Defining God as the Force for Good

[nazz]

I would like to offer an alternative definition of God primarily as the Force for Good in the universe. I don't intend this to be an exhaustive definition but just the primary one on which I want to focus. If we utilize such a definition it has deep implications in how we view what happens in the world and how we view the actions of humanity.

But first let me elaborate on exactly what I mean. I don't mean "force" in the sense of something which compels but rather that which motivates a person to do good. In other words, an influence. The strength of that influence, the power behind it, might vary individual to individual.

Looked at in this way whenever something good happens it is an expression of the will of God. Whenever a person does something good they are doing the will of God. It doesn't matter what religion they belong to or if they belong to none. It doesn't matter if they are a theist or atheist.

Conversely when evil occurs, when human beings do evil, that is contrary to the will of God even if they justify their actions by means of religion.

Now, of course, all of this begs the question of what is good. For the purposes of this idea I will define "good" as that which one feels in one's heart to be truly good regardless of any other consideration. So, in other words, one can't claim something is good simply because one's religion teaches it to be good. Especially if one's own heart contradicts that.

Now obviously using that criterion there may still be differences in what people will regard as truly good. But that's okay. Because part of the activity of this force is to bring people to a higher and deeper understanding of what it means to be good. It's an ever evolving process.

Thoughts?

 

[Sabour]

Thoughts?

Wouldn't that definition make evil outside of God's will ?

 

[nazz]

Wouldn't that definition make evil outside of God's will ?

Yes, of course

 

[Sabour]

So in my opinion this definition fails because it either walks with a blind eye on the fact that God is omnipotent or it denies that fact.

 

[columbus]

I would like to offer an alternative definition of God primarily as the Force for Good in the universe. I don't intend this to be an exhaustive definition but just the primary one on which I want to focus. If we utilize such a definition it has deep implications in how we view what happens in the world and how we view the actions of humanity.

But first let me elaborate on exactly what I mean. I don't mean "force" in the sense of something which compels but rather that which motivates a person to do good. In other words, an influence. The strength of that influence, the power behind it, might vary individual to individual.

Looked at in this way whenever something good happens it is an expression of the will of God. Whenever a person does something good they are doing the will of God. It doesn't matter what religion they belong to or if they belong to none. It doesn't matter if they are a theist or atheist.

Conversely when evil occurs, when human beings do evil, that is contrary to the will of God even if they justify their actions by means of religion.

Now, of course, all of this begs the question of what is good. For the purposes of this idea I will define "good" as that which one feels in one's heart to be truly good regardless of any other consideration. So, in other words, one can't claim something is good simply because one's religion teaches it to be good. Especially if one's own heart contradicts that.

Now obviously using that criterion there may still be differences in what people will regard as truly good. But that's okay. Because part of the activity of this force is to bring people to a higher and deeper understanding of what it means to be good. It's an ever evolving process.

Thoughts?

I would like to offer an alternative definition of God primarily as the Force for Good in the universe. I don't intend this to be an exhaustive definition but just the primary one on which I want to focus. If we utilize such a definition it has deep implications in how we view what happens in the world and how we view the actions of humanity.

But first let me elaborate on exactly what I mean. I don't mean "force" in the sense of something which compels but rather that which motivates a person to do good. In other words, an influence. The strength of that influence, the power behind it, might vary individual to individual.

Looked at in this way whenever something good happens it is an expression of the will of God. Whenever a person does something good they are doing the will of God. It doesn't matter what religion they belong to or if they belong to none. It doesn't matter if they are a theist or atheist.

Conversely when evil occurs, when human beings do evil, that is contrary to the will of God even if they justify their actions by means of religion.

Now, of course, all of this begs the question of what is good. For the purposes of this idea I will define "good" as that which one feels in one's heart to be truly good regardless of any other consideration. So, in other words, one can't claim something is good simply because one's religion teaches it to be good. Especially if one's own heart contradicts that.

Now obviously using that criterion there may still be differences in what people will regard as truly good. But that's okay. Because part of the activity of this force is to bring people to a higher and deeper understanding of what it means to be good. It's an ever evolving process.

Thoughts?

It sounds nice to religionists, I suppose. But it completely contradicts reality.

God is the source of all evil. He not only sends tsunamis and viruses, but creates ignorant people with instincts for sex and violence. Humans are the source of moral goodness. We can learn to treat each other with care, be productive, and learn about ourselves and the rest of the world. People claiming to speak for God sometimes advocate that as well, but there is no God who ever does it Himself.

We learn to be good from each other. God doesn't care about us any more than He cares about an Ebola virus. We have to be good to each other and care about each other or it just won't happen.

Tom

 

[Sabour]

It sounds nice to religionists, I suppose. But it completely contradicts reality.

God is the source of all evil. He not only sends tsunamis and viruses, but creates ignorant people with instincts for sex and violence. Humans are the source of moral goodness. We can learn to treat each other with care, be productive, and learn about ourselves and the rest of the world. People claiming to speak for God sometimes advocate that as well, but there is no God who ever does it Himself.

We learn to be good from each other. God doesn't care about us any more than He cares about an Ebola virus. We have to be good to each other and care about each other or it just won't happen.

Tom

I am afraid you can't say that this leads to that without understanding the whole picture.

Regards

 

[columbus]

I am afraid you can't say that this leads to that without understanding the whole picture.

Regards

I believe I understand the whole picture as well as most. Better than many people who restrict their vision to what people tell them about God and morality. That would be religion.

I don't have any particular faith in what humans tell me about God when it contradicts what I can see and learn for myself.

Tom

 

[Sabour]

I believe I understand the whole picture as well as most. Better than many people who restrict their vision to what people tell them about God and morality. That would be religion.

I don't have any particular faith in what humans tell me about God when it contradicts what I can see and learn for myself.

Tom

Well than I hope that you see God's blessings too. Friend Tom, my vision is never restricted by my beliefs. But many thanks for your cocerns.

 

[nazz]

It sounds nice to religionists, I suppose. But it completely contradicts reality.

God is the source of all evil. He not only sends tsunamis and viruses, but creates ignorant people with instincts for sex and violence.

Not in my view which is sort of the point of this thread

 

[nazz]

I believe I understand the whole picture as well as most. Better than many people who restrict their vision to what people tell them about God and morality. That would be religion.

Did you catch in my OP that religion is part of the problem?

 

[Skwim]

Conversely when evil occurs, when human beings do evil, that is contrary to the will of God even if they justify their actions by means of religion.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? Yup. According to 47% of the 30 Bibles I checked, god created evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
​

So it seems unreasonable that people doing what he created would be contrary to his will. In fact, doing evil would be quite in keeping with his will.

 

[nazz]

Thoughts? Yup. According to 47% of the 30 Bibles I checked, god created evil.

Who cares?

Hey did you know most people eat rice in China? so how can you be an atheist?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I would like to offer an alternative definition of God primarily as the Force for Good in the universe. I don't intend this to be an exhaustive definition but just the primary one on which I want to focus. If we utilize such a definition it has deep implications in how we view what happens in the world and how we view the actions of humanity.

But first let me elaborate on exactly what I mean. I don't mean "force" in the sense of something which compels but rather that which motivates a person to do good. In other words, an influence. The strength of that influence, the power behind it, might vary individual to individual.

Looked at in this way whenever something good happens it is an expression of the will of God. Whenever a person does something good they are doing the will of God. It doesn't matter what religion they belong to or if they belong to none. It doesn't matter if they are a theist or atheist.

Conversely when evil occurs, when human beings do evil, that is contrary to the will of God even if they justify their actions by means of religion.

Now, of course, all of this begs the question of what is good. For the purposes of this idea I will define "good" as that which one feels in one's heart to be truly good regardless of any other consideration. So, in other words, one can't claim something is good simply because one's religion teaches it to be good. Especially if one's own heart contradicts that.

Now obviously using that criterion there may still be differences in what people will regard as truly good. But that's okay. Because part of the activity of this force is to bring people to a higher and deeper understanding of what it means to be good. It's an ever evolving process.

Thoughts?

Not only are there differences in what people consider good, but those differences are so significant that it will turn into a mess of conflicting societies, AKA war.

It's pretty much similar to the system most people use daily. The only difference is that there is a public law and they are limited to do their 'good' within those guidelines. To take it to a completely personal level of doing only that which one believes is morally good is only going to put out a lot more wars, though on smaller scales.

I can't help but see that what you are suggesting is no different than what we have today, and what we always had.

This cannot be a solution to evil in the world, and not to mention world peace. The cause of war is the fact that everyone behaves in what they believe is right. Law exists to organize groups of people as much as it can to lower the amount of conflict.

There simply is no good, and that should be considered before thinking the actions you do are good.

 

[nazz]

Not only are there differences in what people consider good, but those differences are so significant that it will turn into a mess of conflicting societies, AKA war.

It's pretty much similar to the system most people use daily. The only difference is that there is a public law and they are limited to do their 'good' within those guidelines. To take it to a completely personal level of doing only that which one believes is morally good is only going to put out a lot more wars, though on smaller scales.

I can't help but see that what you are suggesting is no different than what we have today, and what we always had.

This cannot be a solution to evil in the world, and not to mention world peace. The cause of war is the fact that everyone behaves in what they believe is right. Law exists to organize groups of people as much as it can to lower the amount of conflict.

There simply is no good, and that should be considered before thinking the actions you do are good.

I just have to disagree. At the heart level I do not believe the differences are great at all. Just a matter of degrees. It is ideology, religious and political, that causes the divisions.

 

[Skwim]

Who cares?

Yeah, I figured this would still be a burr in your underwear. So,"who cares"? Obviously you do!

 

[nazz]

Yeah, I figured this would still be a burr in your underwear. So,"who cares"? Obviously you do!

The only thing I care about is you throwing in a red herring into this discussion. Like I say how can you be an atheist when so many people eat rice?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I just have to disagree. At the heart level I do not believe the differences are great at all. Just a matter of degrees. It is ideology, religious and political, that causes the divisions.

It doesn't have to be very different for it to fall into the same trap. Just saying that it's unworkeable to have a moral code of: Just do good... whatever that means

 

[nazz]

It doesn't have to be very different for it to fall into the same trap. Just saying that it's unworkeable to have a moral code of: Just do good... whatever that means

Seems to me that is what we already have. Except I am saying base it on inner conscience not external ideology. So what's your alternative?

 

[columbus]

Did you catch in my OP that religion is part of the problem?

Yes.
Did you catch that your definition of god contradicts reality in every way possible?

If there is a God, He made viruses and sunshine. He also made humans just as they get born. We humans are the source of moral good, because we can learn to be better than God makes us. We are not born that way, and all too often we stay as predatory as God's other children. But sometimes we do learn how to have better lives than The Creator gave us.

Tom

 

[Sabour]

Thoughts? Yup. According to 47% of the 30 Bibles I checked, god created evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
​

So it seems unreasonable that people doing what he created would be contrary to his will. In fact, doing evil would be quite in keeping with his will.

Why in your response in seemed you were quoting me but you were actually quoting nazz ??