• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Definitions of Political Labels

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
This seems to be big business, not just on RF but everywhere.

So, I would like to hear how you (not your dictionary) define these common political labels:

Left

Right

Conservative

Liberal

Neo-Con

Libertarian

Socialist

Capitalist

Communist

Fascist

Feel free to add others.

I'm asking because these terms seem to have become so muddied as to be meaningless. Liberal and libertarian seem to be the same, while I've also seen folks using socialism and communism interchangeably. 'Fascist' is thrown around as an insult to anyone who doesn't agree, while neo-con seems to be drifting into obscurity and just seems to mean 'closet liberal'.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Fascism is authoritarian which is only an insult for people who disagree with the principles. True, left are accused of communism because they tend to like socialist things like a government in control of healthcare, but that's not communism. Communism is controlling the classes and distributing people's fair share. The working class will only get more disgruntled as manual labor becomes more obsolete due to technological advances but that is no reason to vote for fascism, it doesn't solve those issues, in fact steering away from socialism will likely make matters worse and the elite continue to become even more elite. Though I apologize if I am conflating fascism and communism lol.
 
Last edited:

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
So, I would like to hear how you (not your dictionary) define these common political labels:
Unnecessary, divisive and oft-abused tools for attacking people rather than engaging in rational discussions and solving actual problems. :cool:
 

Kirran

Premium Member
This seems to be big business, not just on RF but everywhere.

So, I would like to hear how you (not your dictionary) define these common political labels:

Left

Right

Conservative

Liberal

Neo-Con

Libertarian

Socialist

Capitalist

Communist

Fascist

Feel free to add others.

I'm asking because these terms seem to have become so muddied as to be meaningless. Liberal and libertarian seem to be the same, while I've also seen folks using socialism and communism interchangeably. 'Fascist' is thrown around as an insult to anyone who doesn't agree, while neo-con seems to be drifting into obscurity and just seems to mean 'closet liberal'.

Here we go!

Left - politics which is based in a belief that inequalities and social hierarchies can and should be eliminated, or at least reduced.

Right - politics which assumes social hierarchy is inevitable and works within that framework.

Conservative - holding on to old social norms out of a distrust of change or an idolisation of tradition.

Liberal - this can be a) economic liberal (how I tend to use the term liberal) which refers to the idealising of free market exchange and so on or b) social liberal (how it's often used in the US) which is about reducing historical societal inequalities, along gender, sexual orientation, racial etc lines

Neocon - a political philosophy coming out of America that is centred upon its approach to foreign policy, which is interventionist

Libertarian - supporting the minimising of restrictions upon the rights of individuals. Tends to refer to capitalist libertarianism in the States, but socialist libertarianism is also very much a thing

Socialist - someone who advocates handing over possession and control of the means of production directly to the people and the abolition of the capitalist system

Communist - someone who supports the abolition of the class system and capitalism, generally by way of the creation of a vanguard state which will "manage" the transition to a stateless society which will come about through a predicted "withering away of the state"

Fascist - someone who follows a 20th Century ideology based in ultranationalism, dictatorship and militarism.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Here's one - Anarchist - an anarchist society is one in which the state has been abolished, along with any other centralised rule, in favour of bottom-up democracy starting from the grassroots. An anarchist society is a very organised society, due to being democratic all the way through while not allowing the emergence of inequalities. Methods regarding how to reach such a society are disagreed upon among anarchists.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Liberal and libertarian seem to be the same

iu


I'll tell you why later or maybe someone else will or already has. Just to surprise you :p
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm asking because these terms seem to have become so muddied as to be meaningless. Liberal and libertarian seem to be the same, while I've also seen folks using socialism and communism interchangeably. 'Fascist' is thrown around as an insult to anyone who doesn't agree, while neo-con seems to be drifting into obscurity and just seems to mean 'closet liberal'.[/QUOTE]
Left - Leaning towards bigger government, income/wealth distribution, secular, high taxes, authoritarianism, pro-abortion, pro-gay, anti-gun rights, pro-regulation (economic, social), nation building.

Right - Leaning towards strong central government, no income/wealth distribution, theocracy, low taxes, authoritarianism, anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-gun rights, anti-regulation (economic), pro-regulation (social), foreign adventurism.

Conservative - Similar to "right" Leaning towards smaller & less centralized government, no income/wealth distribution, theocracy, low taxes, authoritarianism, anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-gun rights, anti-regulation (economic), pro-regulation (social), isolationist.
Note: This is a N Americastanian based definition, not to be confused with the very different Eurostanian one.

Neo-con - Similar to "right", but with a big government, foreign adventurism, tax-&-spend tendency which GHW Bush called "kinder & gentler conservatism".

Liberal - Similar to "left" Leaning towards smaller & less centralized government, no income/wealth distribution, theocracy, low taxes, authoritarianism, anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-gun rights, anti-regulation (economic), pro-regulation (social), isolationist.
Note: This is a N Americastanian based definition, not to be confused with the very different Eurostanian one.

Addition.....
Classical Liberal (aka Jeffersonian Liberal) - Similar to "libertarian"
RF definition calls it "conservative", but this is incorrect.

Libertarian (small "l") - Maximum liberty, both economic & social. One has sole dominion over one's body. All relationships should be voluntary. No theocracy, small government, low taxes, isolationist, pro-gay, pro-gun, pro-free speech.....as we are want to say, "pro-everything". See the wall-of-text note at the bottom of this post.

Libertarian (capital "L") - This is the Party where libertarians tend to flock. It involves compromises with the Big Two parties to influence public policy in a libertarian direction. We don't compromise enuf to actually become successful.

Socialist - Government controls the means of production.

Communism - Like socialism, but with people paid according to need (socialism on steroids).

Capitalism - Individuals & associations thereof own property & freely raise capital to conduct business, eg, farming, manufacturing, selling. And for some reason, dogs will run.

Facism - Extremely authoritarian government, typically intolerant of non-conforming ideas or conduct.

Revoltifarianism - Identical to "Libertarian", but with more interest in serving others.
As we say....
"If you prefer to be dispatched with a particular caliber, please give us a few days notice before trying to rob us."


Note about "libertarian".
There is some confusion about there being a libertarian "right" & "left".
The "libertarian left" would be social liberty with economic authoritarianism, which is makes the term oxymoronic. To be half libertarian is to not be libertarian at all. The "libertarian left" is really very similar to "liberal", but without military attacks on so many other countries.
The confusion seems to come from the erroneous belief that the term originates in the ancient French use of their corresponding word for "libertarian". But "libertarian" actually pre-dates that usage, & originates in England in the 1600s (The Levellers & John Locke), where it embodied both social & economic liberty. To be earlier & British is better than the French Johnny come lately.
 
Last edited:

Kirran

Premium Member
Note about "libertarian".
There is some confusion about there being a libertarian "right" & "left".
The "libertarian left" would be social liberty with economic authoritarianism, which is makes the term oxymoronic. To be half libertarian is to not be libertarian at all. The "libertarian left" is really very similar to "liberal", but without military attacks on so many other countries.
The confusion seems to come from the erroneous belief that the term originates in the ancient French use of their corresponding word for "libertarian". But "libertarian" actually pre-dates that usage, & originates in England in the 1600s (The Levellers & John Locke), where it embodied both social & economic liberty. To be earlier & British is better than the French Johnny come lately.

The use of the term libertarian socialist is well-established and has long been in use. This was the term used before 'anarchist' took over, for the most part.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The use of the term libertarian socialist is well-established and has long been in use. This was the term used before 'anarchist' took over, for the most part.
I know.
It's just wrong.
Socialism cannot exist without a powerful authoritarian central government.
History shows this is incompatible with liberty.

If you find me pedantic & narrow minded regarding this issue, you're right.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
I know.
It's just wrong.
Socialism cannot exist without a powerful authoritarian central government.
History shows this is incompatible with liberty.

If you find me pedantic & narrow minded regarding this issue, you're right.

Can it not? That's authoritarian socialism. But it certainly does not define socialism in total.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Can it not? That's authoritarian socialism. But it certainly does not define socialism in total.
True, it is not in the definition of socialism.
But it appears to be a both theoretically & empirically a high probability necessary condition socialism.

It's possible to imagine political-economic systems which wouldn't exist in the real world.
Here's one I just invented....
Libertarian anarchy - Everyone respects everyone else's autonomy with no government to enforce contracts or exercise police powers.
Human beings just wouldn't behave this way on a large scale over time.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As this will descend into endless squabbling I plan on taking this very seriously.... :D

Left: the people with good arguments who lose because they have no money and no supporters. Often believe being poor and losing are good for you and rich-winners are evil.

Right: the people with bad arguments who win because they have more money and can buy supporters. Often believe that having money and winning are good for you and poor-losers are evil and trying to get their money.

Conservative: people who are really nice, pleasant and polite in public. Meanwhile in private they hate everyone around them and think their friends and family are out to get them by making them turn on God, king and country. Needs to get laid and chill out more.

Liberal: someone who has big ideals and but doesn't act on them. gets morally outraged when others actually do so because non-violence, inaction and losing are considered virtuous. Often vegan.

Neo-Con: close your eyes, spin a globe and point at a space on the globe. Give up trying to pronounce that countries name and say it needs freedom. bomb first, build a Mc Donalds later in the ruins.

Libertarian: corporations are bad. Governments are worse. Therefore corporations will set us free and deliver us from evil!

Socialist: someone who wears a che t-shirt made in a Chinese sweatshop to show how much they love poor people.

Capitalist: the guy who sells the che t-shirt because he cares more about money than who his customers are as a matter of principle.

Communist: someone who fights capitalism, kills lots of people, only to become be killed by fascists. Often confused with facists but is much cooler on a t-shirt.

Fascist: the person liberals support when they want to keep their big ideals but don't want to feel guilty about acting on them. Generally does in public what conservatives think in private and enjoys killing communists and socialists as a job and a hobby.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
True, it is not in the definition of socialism.
But it appears to be a both theoretically & empirically a high probability necessary condition socialism.

It's possible to imagine political-economic systems which wouldn't exist in the real world.
Here's one I just invented....
Libertarian anarchy - Everyone respects everyone else's autonomy with no government to enforce contracts or exercise police powers.
Human beings just wouldn't behave this way on a large scale over time.

It's only to be expected that you wouldn't think a political ideology that it's yours is practical. But libertarian forms of socialism (or socialist forms of libertarianism) are a well-established tradition which have a substantial number of practical manifestations, both 'total' (anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, in Ukraine, the Zapatistas, the anarchist commune federations etc) and partial, in the form of the co-operative movement and so forth.
 
Top