Democracy going down

[Secret Chief]

Millennials all over the world have lost faith in democracy | News | The Times
(Paywall) (me neither)

Globally, a majority of people aged in their 20s and 30s have lost faith in democracy as a means of running a society. This is particularly pronounced in the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" countries.

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Some causes:

-The electoral system
-Factions weaponizing their beliefs
-Poor education in schools

Etc.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Millennials all over the world have lost faith in democracy | News | The Times
(Paywall) (me neither)

Globally, a majority of people aged in their 20s and 30s have lost faith in democracy as a means of running a society. This is particularly pronounced in the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" countries.

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

My thoughts of the possible causes:

Lack of historical knowledge, as they are not taught about what we can learn about human nature through analysing history. So they are doomed to repeat past mistakes out of ignorance.

Lack of critical thinking skills as they are taught what to think and not how to think.

They are being riled up by charismatic leaders and ideologies of teachers and professors who are indoctrinating them towards certain viewpoints.

I think the biggest cause is social engineering through social media whether intentional or unintentional. Social media generally promotes a polarized view of arguments with the voices of a minority on each side, forcing people to take sides and feeling as if they are being attacked.


That being said, I think that the first question to ask is what alternatives are they proposing? Do they want an improved democracy (I believe that current democracy isn't a true democracy) or do they want to revert to some other form of government?

 

[Altfish]

True Democracy is proportional representation - the countries that have that are reasonably ok with Democracy.

But when you have systems like the US's and UK's it is not ok.

Clinton got 3m votes more than Trump but lost

In the UK the Tories got 43.6% of the vote but have a huge Parliamentary majority

That is not democracy

 

[Secret Chief]

The places where it is most unpopular are the US, the UK and Australia, apparently. Young people aren't looking for nationalism or populist authoritarian leaders, they see the current system as not delivering on their needs and interests.
And yes, I agree with the points made above.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The places where it is most unpopular are the US, the UK and Australia, apparently. Young people aren't looking for nationalism or populist authoritarian leaders, they see the current system as not delivering on their needs and interests.
And yes, I agree with the points made above.

What I find most interesting is that on Youtube, the US, UK and Australia seems to be the places mainly linked with controversies over things such as gender pronouns, patriarchy, feminism etc, usually resulting in disputes between the left and right. The black lives matter protests also happened in America and the UK mainly according to what I have seen. It seems like they are the most polarized countries at the moment. Dunno if this is just perception or has elements of the truth, but there does seem to be an upsurge of progressive thought in those countries and many progressive proponents seem to be intolerant of opposing views. They are also very loud and outspoken with the media and social media seeming to support these social activists.

 

[Secret Chief]

What I find most interesting is that on Youtube, the US, UK and Australia seems to be the places mainly linked with controversies over things such as gender pronouns, patriarchy, feminism etc, usually resulting in disputes between the left and right. The black lives matter protests also happened in America and the UK mainly according to what I have seen. It seems like they are the most polarized countries at the moment. Dunno if this is just perception or has elements of the truth, but there does seem to be an upsurge of progressive thought in those countries and many progressive proponents seem to be intolerant of opposing views. They are also very loud and outspoken with the media and social media seeming to support these social activists.

It certainly feels like two countries here in the UK.

 

[Samael_Khan]

It certainly feels like two countries here in the UK.

What is the political and social atmosphere like in the UK at the moment? Is it very polarised?

 

[Secret Chief]

It seems very polarised to me. Maybe I'm one of the polarised and there's actually a lot of ..... unpolarised people. The referendum on the EU really exposed and further bifurcated the UK. The split is not so much visible on traditional left/right or class politics imo. The brexit split is broadly between cities and towns/rural, "young" and "old", and university-educated / non university educated. Brexit has also had an impact on the four nations. The break up of the UK, (at least partially) seems very likely, with Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales breaking away from England in the not so distant future. I'd say Scotland at least is a racing certainty.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is because people do notice when Democracy fails them.
our Politicians have corrupted democracy to the point that it serves them, not the people.

At the same time the main western countries attack the east, and China in particular, for not being democratic enough.
The truth is, democracy is not working working well anywhere.
It is no better in the UK or the USA than it is in China. In none of them is it serving the people very well at all.

The parties and leaders, standing in the wings, ready for their turns at government, are little better than what we have now anywhere. Future prospects are no better than now.
The entire political system is failing, largely because of the people and parties in power right now.
That some are clearly worse than others, adds nothing to recommend it.

The whole caboodle needs cleaning out and starting over.

 

[PureX]

Millennials all over the world have lost faith in democracy | News | The Times
(Paywall) (me neither)

Globally, a majority of people aged in their 20s and 30s have lost faith in democracy as a means of running a society. This is particularly pronounced in the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" countries.

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

They are fools who should read some history and learn how to think. There is nothing wrong with representational democracy. what's destroying it is the tenacious greed of "free market capitalism". No form of government can function when it's being controlled by the greed of the few at the expense of the many. Millennials need to stop bowing to the glorification and inevitability of greed and start coming up with ways of reigning it in. Because if they don't, it is going to destroy their lives, and maybe the entire planet.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What is the political and social atmosphere like in the UK at the moment? Is it very polarised?

Not half as polarised as it is going to be in a few weeks time when the consequences of brexit come into effect.
The entire applecart of what we see as "normal" comes to an abrupt crashing halt.
as of today we have no agreement at all as to how imports, goods and services or even people can move around between us and the EU. Even our existing agreements that we have with other countries come too an end, as we have been trading with EU trade agreements not our own. largely we have no agreements with anyone, about anything.
It is said that we will have to trade with WTO rules... but even that is not agreed and almost nothing is in place.
Businesses have not even been given an outline of what to expect.

Come January when the sh.t hits the fan. we will have a far clearer Idea about our position. and how much we are divided.

We are no longer even in agreement over Covid 19. the government is in disarray, and no longer following the advice of the medical scientists. The four countries are largely setting their own rules and have different agendas.

 

[Secret Chief]

They are fools who should read some history and learn how to think. There is nothing wrong with representational democracy. what's destroying it is the tenacious greed of "free market capitalism". No form of government can function when it's being controlled by the greed of the few at the expense of the many. Millennials need to stop bowing to the glorification and inevitability of greed and start coming up with ways of reigning it in. Because if they don't, it is going to destroy their lives, and maybe the entire planet.

I'm not sure they are against representational democracy. They do not perceive the democracy that they have as being representational.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Millennials all over the world have lost faith in democracy | News | The Times
(Paywall) (me neither)

Globally, a majority of people aged in their 20s and 30s have lost faith in democracy as a means of running a society. This is particularly pronounced in the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" countries.

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

They have of course a point to make, and they are going to press for whatever it is. They are a part of the population. They'll decide whether there have been gaps in their education and press for education reform in that case. They'll turn fifty and wonder about the new 20s and 30s. If they don't like democracy they can change it without firing a shot.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Not half as polarised as it is going to be in a few weeks time when the consequences of brexit come into effect.
The entire applecart of what we see as "normal" comes to an abrupt crashing halt.
as of today we have no agreement at all as to how imports, goods and services or even people can move around between us and the EU. Even our existing agreements that we have with other countries come too an end, as we have been trading with EU trade agreements not our own. largely we have no agreements with anyone, about anything.
It is said that we will have to trade with WTO rules... but even that is not agreed and almost nothing is in place.
Businesses have not even been given an outline of what to expect.

Come January when the sh.t hits the fan. we will have a far clearer Idea about our position. and how much we are divided.

We are no longer even in agreement over Covid 19. the government is in disarray, and no longer following the advice of the medical scientists. The four countries are largely setting their own rules and have different agendas.

That really doesn't sound good for the country. The company that I am working for have been trying to get into the UK market for a year now, but we can't make a solid commitment because we do not know how trade would work. I hope the UK's economy doesn't suffer so badly because of the economic uncertainty.

It seems crazy to me how a government can make a decision but have no plan in place for how they will deal with the consequences of that decision. That stinks of incompetence.

But I guess that it is a sign of a good democracy when there is evidence that people can openly not agree on things with no consequences, which is a plus.

 

[Samael_Khan]

It is because people do notice when Democracy fails them.
our Politicians have corrupted democracy to the point that it serves them, not the people.

At the same time the main western countries attack the east, and China in particular, for not being democratic enough.
The truth is, democracy is not working working well anywhere.
It is no better in the UK or the USA than it is in China. In none of them is it serving the people very well at all.

The parties and leaders, standing in the wings, ready for their turns at government, are little better than what we have now anywhere. Future prospects are no better than now.
The entire political system is failing, largely because of the people and parties in power right now.
That some are clearly worse than others, adds nothing to recommend it.

The whole caboodle needs cleaning out and starting over.

I think that the root cause of this is that there are a minority who have power over the majority and in present democracies all we do is select which conman has power over us. As long as there are those who are granted power, the majority will suffer, as those in power are in power for power's sake, and will benefit themselves rather than the majority. I think that is what we have been fooled into all these years. We think that selecting those who have power over us is true freedom.

 

[Secret Chief]

a government can make a decision but have no plan in place for how they will deal with the consequences of that decision. That stinks of incompetence.

It's been called the worst post-war government. Self-serving, lying, incompetent. But a significant portion of the electorate are just mad keen on leaving the EU. "No deal" doesn't frighten them because they are idiots. IMO.

 

[Samael_Khan]

It's been called the worst post-war government. Self-serving, lying, incompetent. But a significant portion of the electorate are just mad keen on leaving the EU. "No deal" doesn't frighten them because they are idiots. IMO.

Did the majority of the citizens want to leave the EU?

 

[Mindmaster]

Millennials all over the world have lost faith in democracy | News | The Times
(Paywall) (me neither)

Globally, a majority of people aged in their 20s and 30s have lost faith in democracy as a means of running a society. This is particularly pronounced in the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" countries.

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

That's good, because there is no democracy in this country. (USA) Only a constitutional republic! So, it's finally time that they understood they believe in something that doesn't exist and move on, lol.

And, if you think this country will become one you're nuts... The federal govt functions independently, and there are 50 states and various other territories which also function independently. Good luck getting all of them agreeing with your plan, lol.

 

[Secret Chief]

citizens

No. About one third of citizens did not vote. Of the two thirds that did, 52% voted leave, 48% voted remain. Is that an acceptable result concerning such a major issue to leave the most successful trading bloc in the world? The leave campaign was full of lies and backed by Russia. The result was not legally binding but hey ho.
The tory leader at the time (Cameron) called the referendum for internal political reasons, he was worried about tory voters switching to a pro-leave party. He thought the remain campaign would win.