Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[SkepticThinker]

The Hebrew and Greek Manuscripts that is commonly known as the Bible

List of English Bible translations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SkepticThinker]

You can look at the ones on You tube… Daniel Adams. Go the movie today at 7PM Come Out In Jesus Name and observe for yourself what happens. Stay for the live stream after the movie and see demons manifest in people and get free. Demons are spirits without bodies so unless you can see into the spiritual realm you won’t see them but will see them manifesting and leaving a person.

I've seen this stuff on YouTube many times and the only word I can think to describe it is nonsense. No demons are ever actually seen. Behaviors are just interpreted as demonic possession with no actual demonstration of such. You don't actually see anything like demons "manifesting and leaving a person."

You claim a spiritual realm exists. Prove it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

As an atheist I heard nuisance voices for 3 decades. After an awakening I later thought I had exorcised/delivered myself when turning Christian and saying the Lord’s Prayer for a year. I felt something invisible leave me via my forehead and felt good after that. But now I believe God had been talking to me all that time before, it was just that the words of wisdom/knowledge were too cryptic to work out they were from Him. Maybe a demon did leave me making things easier.

Honestly, you should seek psychological attention if you hear voices in your head.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You keep evading the point.
You said hell isn't for humans. And yet God puts humans there. You admit that, here, in this post. Which means, that hell is for humans.
So, care to answer the question now? What kind of loving God throws his creations into a lake of hellfire for all eternity?

A Just, Holy, Merciful, God does exactly what He has done. Paid the penalty for our rebellion Himself and offered forgiveness to every human being. Then He has His arms open wide and invites everyone to come. He is King and Lord not human beings, if you can’t see that by now then oh well. I wouldn’t let any rebel in Heaven to ruin it for everyone else.
So have your own view of God and continue the direction you’re going. His arms are still open wide to you through Jesus Christ. That’s what He says in the Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I've seen this stuff on YouTube many times and the only word I can think to describe it is nonsense. No demons are ever actually seen. Behaviors are just interpreted as demonic possession with no actual demonstration of such. You don't actually see anything like demons "manifesting and leaving a person."

You claim a spiritual realm exists. Prove it.

Go to the movie tonight and check back later, if you want to see for yourself you have to go where demons are manifesting instead of being a window watcher, get in the action.

 

[Apostle John]

Honestly, you should seek psychological attention if you hear voices in your head.

I’m lucky to get a word of knowledge/wisdom these days. When I do and am able to interpret it, it gives a natural high no drug can match, it’s all Biblical and called gifts of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12. Sceptical thinking is a waste of brain energy, can create cynicism leading nowhere.

 

[Apostle John]

Good question. Thanks for asking.

The criterion is mentioned by Jesus. Matthew 13:11-16; Matthew 16:17
One needs to have the right heart - that is, a humble heart, which thirsts for truth and righteousness. Matthew 5:3-5 There is no other criterion that exist outside of that, where having the correct understanding of God's word is concerned.

The reason being, this is not a fleshly thing. In other words, it does not depend on flesh.
The Bible says, God's word is a product of holy spirit. 2 Peter 1:20, 21 It is a spiritual thing.

One of Jesus followers explains it at 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself: If anyone among you thinks he is wise in this system of things,* let him become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” 20 And again: “Jehovah* knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.”

Of course, Paul is not saying, be a fool - aka Idiot. Paul is saying, become as one who does not think he is so wise.
Why? When you think you are so wise, you become proud - too proud to allow yourself to be taught, by anyone... except perhaps those who think they are so wise. Arrogance only knows arrogance.

Spoiler: This Happens

Haven't you met persons who were so stubborn, their stubbornness blinded them to reason. Then, perhaps later they came to you, and said, "You know, I just could not see, what you were telling me, but you were right."?
That happens, sometimes in relationships.

If you are humble, you will understand, and you will know that your understanding is reasonable.
To help you grasp that, consider what I did above.
I read... "let him become a fool..."
Then I said, "Paul is not saying, be a fool..."

If someone argues. "Wait. Wait. Wait. The scripture reads, 'let him become a fool', and you are saying he does not mean become a fool. What!"
If I explain, "It's the context. Read the text." If anyone among you thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, so that he may become wise.
Now explain it. It's contrasting worldly wisdom to wisdom that is true wisdom - wisdom from God.
So being a fool is in the context that the world considers foolish.

This is explained in the previous verses. 1 Corinthians 1
25 Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men.
26 For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God.

The reasonable person says, "Ah. I see. I understand."
The unreasonable person continues in his opposition. He holds to an unreasonable position... and does not budge.
Here are two persons, or groups, looking at the same scripture. Yet, one is reasonable. The other is not.
What causes that, is determined by one's heart - either it is humble (teachable), or proud (arrogant).

Here is where God comes in.
The arrogant will not see it, unless he becomes humble, because God gives his spirit to the humble one. The arrogant, he sees from a distance. James 4:6; Psalms 138:6 God opposes them.
If one is not guided by God's spirit, there is only one result. 2 Corinthians 4:4 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

That's the way it has been determined by the one who has truth, reads hearts, and determines who deserve it. John 6:44, 45
The reason is, life is involved, and God determines who gets life.
The Bible tells us that in the new world God is making, there will be no arrogant, rebellious people who stubbornly want to go their own way.
Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs* and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral* and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Recall, Jesus said, do not give what is holy to dogs? Matthew 7:6
What is holy - from God - belongs only to God's children - that is, all those loving him.

You may be thinking, 'Well if the holy spirit only acts on humble hearts, and yet, so many claim to be led by holy spirit, how can one determine who is really accurately presenting truth?"
That would be a very Good question.
Jesus gives the answer in various places, but I like John 8:31, 32
Two things Jesus mentioned there. If you, remain in his word... You will know...
The onus is on you, and that brings it back to the heart.

One who is truly humble examines their heart, as to whether they are being honest, or deceitful, and when faced with truth, one has the choice to either reject it, knowing deep down that they are willfully rejecting it, or humbly accepting it, even if one realizes that it goes against things they hold dear, and do not want to give up.
What you are on the inside, is manifest by the truth. It exposes what we are, and we cannot hide it... either from others, or ourselves.
It's on us to know.

A lot know when they are being hypocritical.

In the months before a Christian awakening I was lucky to get my voice kept saying “you made a rod for your back”. It’s an idiom from the Bible. I was a clueless fool in the run up to being awakened.

 

[SkepticThinker]

A Just, Holy, Merciful, God does exactly what He has done. Paid the penalty for our rebellion Himself and offered forgiveness to every human being. Then He has His arms open wide and invites everyone to come. He is King and Lord not human beings, if you can’t see that by now then oh well. I wouldn’t let any rebel in Heaven to ruin it for everyone else.
So have your own view of God and continue the direction you’re going. His arms are still open wide to you through Jesus Christ. That’s what He says in the Bible.

This evades the point again. And it's just a repetitive mantra with no thinking put into the questions being asked.
There is nothing just nor merciful about sending your children to spend eternity in a lake of fire. That's not a loving action, nor a merciful one when you actually spend one second thinking about it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Go to the movie tonight and check back later, if you want to see for yourself you have to go where demons are manifesting instead of being a window watcher, get in the action.

LOL You literally just told me I should look to YouTube videos for the evidence I seek.

Am I going to see something in this movie that's not on YouTube? Where is it, and when are you going to submit it to science journals for peer review? I mean, you could get a Nobel Prize out of this, if you could actually demonstrate the existence of demons.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I’m lucky to get a word of knowledge/wisdom these days. When I do and am able to interpret it, it gives a natural high no drug can match, it’s all Biblical and called gifts of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12. Sceptical thinking is a waste of brain energy, can create cynicism leading nowhere.

Employing skepticism is a great way to attempt to discern fact from fiction so that we don't have to just believe every claim ever made by anybody without good evidence.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This evades the point again. And it's just a repetitive mantra with no thinking put into the questions being asked.
There is nothing just nor merciful about sending your children to spend eternity in a lake of fire. That's not a loving action, nor a merciful one when you actually spend one second thinking about it.

I have thought about it and in the Day of Judgement where everyone’s secrets will be shown then everyone will be in agreement with God’s righteous Judgement.
So you are welcome to your view of God and serve the one you like the best.

 

[Apostle John]

Employing skepticism is a great way to attempt to discern fact from fiction so that we don't have to just believe every claim ever made by anybody without good evidence.

Lol, I bet you believe all the scientific theories as fact. Like hearing voices is all in the head- the pseudoscience of psychology says that. The theory of relativity is being doubted now by physicists. Don’t you believe in black holes even though humans experience optical illusions? Be honest.

 

[ElishaElijah]

LOL You literally just told me I should look to YouTube videos for the evidence I seek.

Am I going to see something in this movie that's not on YouTube? Where is it, and when are you going to submit it to science journals for peer review? I mean, you could get a Nobel Prize out of this, if you could actually demonstrate the existence of demons.

Come Out In Jesus Name is showing tonight in theatre’s across the US, if you aren’t in the US you’ll have to find some Deliverance Conferences or Churches that are setting people free. But to explain here on RF to someone who is asking for 1 type of proof and dismissing everything else that doesn’t fit their mind is futile and will just have to wait, time has a way of revealing the truth.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Lol, I bet you believe all the scientific theories as fact.

Scientific theories aren't facts. They are bodies of knowledge that explain facts.
Graduated / confirmed hypothesis, if you will.

Like hearing voices is all in the head- the pseudoscience of psychology says that.

It's actually psychiatry that deals with that kind of hallucinations. And the voices tend to go away with anti-psychotic medication.

The theory of relativity is being doubted now by physicists.

If you build a GPS satelite system without taking into account relativistic effects, the GPS signal will be off by several miles and it would be unusable.
Relativity is very much a real and demonstrable phenomenon. GPS literally doesn't work if you ignore it.

Don’t you believe in black holes even though humans experience optical illusions? Be honest.

Black holes also are very real. We have literally directly observed them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Whatever that means but if a person wants to know God, according to the Bible it’s through Jesus Christ and Him alone, that’s the starting point…the Cross. People balk at that, try to justify themselves instead of humbling themselves and repent. All kinds of justifications, excuses etc. Pride
and selfish ambition seems to be the root cause of most divisions. People exalt tradition over the Word of God. God is pretty clear how He wants us to live.

That is not the point I am making. I am not asking how to find God or rejecting the Bible. I am asking about those that claim to know God and challenge the interpretations of others as not being the "true interpretation" when they themselves cannot present any evidence that the interpretation they follow is the "true" one.

What I see is a pattern from some believers that confounds the claims of their own salvation or perhaps it opens up the fact that being a Christian is not some fossilized state and that Christians can hold interpretations within a wider range than is claimed by some men.

The pattern usually ends with the person asking questions, making uncomfortable points or interpreting differently is met with threats of damnation. Their faith is called into question by people that can't even demonstrate their own. On here, you get over the top posts in retaliation for pointing out their flaws. Where you were approached as a friend and brother with friendly language, you are suddenly a false Christian possessed by evil.

This is the sort of thing that drives people from God not towards Him. It isn't even God that you are asked to join with. It is to join them in their interpretation with all others being wrong on say so. To listen to the words of their men and deify that.

It is interesting to watch this play out consistently.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Come Out In Jesus Name is showing tonight in theatre’s across the US, if you aren’t in the US you’ll have to find some Deliverance Conferences or Churches that are setting people free. But to explain here on RF to someone who is asking for 1 type of proof and dismissing everything else that doesn’t fit their mind is futile and will just have to wait, time has a way of revealing the truth.

Is it about gay christians coming out?

Also, nobody is asking for "proof". He's asking for evidence.

And the "type" of evidence he asks for, is the independently verifiable kind.

You know.... proper evidence that doesn't depend on already believing in order to find it convincing through confirmation bias.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is not the point I am making. I am not asking how to find God or rejecting the Bible. I am asking about those that claim to know God and challenge the interpretations of others as not being the "true interpretation" when they themselves cannot present any evidence that the interpretation they follow is the "true" one.

What I see is a pattern from some believers that confounds the claims of their own salvation or perhaps it opens up the fact that being a Christian is not some fossilized state and that Christians can hold interpretations within a wider range than is claimed by some men.

The pattern usually ends with the person asking questions, making uncomfortable points or interpreting differently is met with threats of damnation. Their faith is called into question by people that can't even demonstrate their own. On here, you get over the top posts in retaliation for pointing out their flaws. Where you were approached as a friend and brother with friendly language, you are suddenly a false Christian possessed by evil.

This is the sort of thing that drives people from God not towards Him. It isn't even God that you are asked to join with. It is to join them in their interpretation with all others being wrong on say so. To listen to the words of their men and deify that.

It is interesting to watch this play out consistently.

Reading your comments the only thing I get from you is you’ve watched some interactions between believers who disagree with each other. Ok, and did anyone compare the Bible with what was being talked about to see who was walking in the truth?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Is it about gay christians coming out?

Also, nobody is asking for "proof". He's asking for evidence.

And the "type" of evidence he asks for, is the independently verifiable kind.

You know.... proper evidence that doesn't depend on already believing in order to find it convincing through confirmation bias.

It’s about Demons being expelled from people who want them out of their lives. I posted 15 types of evidence, personal testimony and eye witness testimony are considered evidence. So the Biblical accounts as well as my own are evidence, people can choose to believe it or not that’s up to them. But to say it’s not evidence on the basis of whether you personally believe it or not is just faulty thinking.
Here are some people who wrote about this subject:
Derek Prince
Smith Wigglesworth
Katherine Kuhlman
Daniel Adams has many videos
Greg Locke has Deliverence Services every week
Mike Signorelli
And many more

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Whatever that means but if a person wants to know God, according to the Bible it’s through Jesus Christ and Him alone, that’s the starting point…the Cross. People balk at that, try to justify themselves instead of humbling themselves and repent. All kinds of justifications, excuses etc. Pride
and selfish ambition seems to be the root cause of most divisions. People exalt tradition over the Word of God. God is pretty clear how He wants us to live.

If accepting Christ, as I believe it is, is the only real criteria for salvation, then interpreting parts of the Bible as allegory should have no basis in concluding if a person is a Christian or not. In fact, the only way that I have of determining if a person is Christian is that they say they are. Christians, being human, are not perfect beings free of sin and can commit sin as well as can the unsaved. Correct?

If it is by their fruits, then some of the fruits I have seen here displayed by those claiming to be "flaming" Christians are sometimes pretty rotten.

Can Christians be wrong about their understanding of things like science or nature? Can they be Christians with a poor interpretation? Where is the evidence for this or against it?

I accept the findings of science and I am sure that marks me in your eyes. But does that really mean anything regarding the truth of my faith? How is anyone to know that these many judgmental eyes in this are not crossed or clouded and all we get are what they believe personally and not facts.

If God gave us senses to see His Creation and the intelligence to use those senses to understand His Creation are those that do wrong or not Christian? If we want to convey that information to people that don't believe as we do, isn't it best to do so on the facts and logic and not on claims that would cloud an understanding that might lead them to believe in the long run? For those that don't understand such things, should they be allowed to deny them for no good reason placing their interpretation as the ultimate one assuming authority reserved for God?

Just some questions that I do not think are unreasonable.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Reading your comments the only thing I get from you is you’ve watched some interactions between believers who disagree with each other. Ok, and did anyone compare the Bible with what was being talked about to see who was walking in the truth?

I don't think you understand and I don't see where I can help you with that from what I am seeing right now. I'll will consider this further to see if there is something I can do to help you.