Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[Muffled]

This doesn't really answer my question, though. If you were to look at someone acting oddly, how do you tell whether or not that person is suffering from a mental illness or if they are demon possessed?

I believe it takes the gift of spiritual discernment but as a guide a few questions can be asked. The first one is: Is this a problem? The definition of mental illness is that the person can't cope with what is going on in his mind. Second: Have you had a bump on your head? Third: have you taken a hallucinogen? Fourth: Is there a history of mental illness in your family?

 

[Muffled]

Conservative Christians have low trust, and even contempt, for mental health services. This seems to extend from a general contempt for science which is likely an extension of the influence of creationism. So your comment above is a big red flag. You offer no justification for it.


Mental health in the USA is badly underfunded and hospitals put a low priority on it compared to more chronic conditions. Patients who need care do not receive it. They are often released from hospitals with short term medication and will end up involved in situations with police who have little training. So these folks end up in jails and prison. This is one reason why prisons are so full and dangerous.

I believe we would have more respect for scientists if they were not so blinded by science that they can't see reality.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry but demons are not known to exist. Those claiming demons as a cause for behavior are suffering from some mental health crisis.

I believe that makes you an ignoramus because you refuse to face the facts and prefer your fantasies.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It’s not hard at all, drugs can be used to help people but it’s temporary, you assume it’s all physical and it’s not.

I don't assume such. The double blind clinical trials demonstrate such.

Are you saying there is no spiritual realm or demons that cause mental and physical problems?

I'm saying there is zero evidence that there is.

Here's the equivalent of your question:
Are you saying there are no undetectable pink graviton pixies regulating gravitational forces?

Drugs are only a bandaid,

Not according to the double blind clinical trials.

the person taking them end up building up a tolerance to them

This is not at all true for all types of meds.

and long term physical problems and dependence, they need more and more never getting freedom.

When the alternative is not being able to live a functional life, or worse still: dying, then being drug dependend is the best type of freedom they can get.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I’m glad the drugs helped you, I’m not saying the drugs don’t help but why would you even think about not taking them when they were helping you?
Wouldn’t you like to explore having a life without the drug dependence? I had to have the drugs and alcohol to cope with life, I was miserable without them but they were also killing me. God changed that for me 35 years ago.
I have no problem with working with doctors, they do their part and I do mine. I don’t cross over into that field, I do have a problem when doctors or others deny the spiritual aspect of a person because of their own unbelief or prejudice against God and counsel against this.

And yet, you did nothing but argue against the link I gave you concerning the double blind clinical trial that demonstrated that schizofrenic patients were better off when taking anti-psychotic medicine.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don’t have a problem with doctors prescribing medication.

Don't you?

Remember what your reply was to me sharing a link with you concerning a double blind clinical trial of doctors prescribing anti-psychotics to people suffering from schizofrenia? Remember? Your exact words were that it is "buffoonery".

Let me remind you:

Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

If Dark Matter is a placeholder name, there is no evidence for it, because, you made up a name for something, for which you have not a clue what it is. As Neil DeGrasse Tyson put it... not in these words. Dark Matter is a lousy name, since no one knows that it is actually matter. That's like...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Many people testify to this fact.

Yes, it's the equivalent of the 5 people that died from a severe allergic reaction to a covid vaccine being front page news, while not mentioning a word of the other 2 billion who were just fine and now had a strong immunity to the viral strain they were vaccinated against.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Don't you?

Remember what your reply was to me sharing a link with you concerning a double blind clinical trial of doctors prescribing anti-psychotics to people suffering from schizofrenia? Remember? Your exact words were that it is "buffoonery".

Let me remind you:

Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

If Dark Matter is a placeholder name, there is no evidence for it, because, you made up a name for something, for which you have not a clue what it is. As Neil DeGrasse Tyson put it... not in these words. Dark Matter is a lousy name, since no one knows that it is actually matter. That's like...

www.religiousforums.com

The buffoonery was the supposed great thing drugs do, but when you look at the side effects of the drugs you’re promoting, not so good. Short term help but long term and according to the warnings it’s not that great.
This is the only option you present and ignore any spiritual solutions that “could” be the root cause, but not always and that’s people being tormented by demons.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And yet, you did nothing but argue against the link I gave you concerning the double blind clinical trial that demonstrated that schizofrenic patients were better off when taking anti-psychotic medicine.

I would say if demons were afflicting these people and they could be free from the affliction and the drugs they would go for it but you would and do discourage that.
On the other hand even if you believe people can be healed by “confirmation bias” why aren’t you promoting that seen as its seems you believe that helps so many people.
I don’t agree with you on CB because I know what happened to me these last 35 years walking with God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The buffoonery was the supposed great thing drugs do, but when you look at the side effects of the drugs you’re promoting, not so good. Short term help but long term and according to the warnings it’s not that great.

And once again, you double -nay; tripple- down on strongly implying that people with psychiatric disorders involving psychosis shouldn't take anti-psychotic meds.

This is the only option you present and ignore any spiritual solutions that “could” be the root cause, but not always and that’s people being tormented by demons.

Show me the double blind clinical trials of these supposed "spiritual solutions".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would say if demons were afflicting these people and they could be free from the affliction and the drugs they would go for it but you would and do discourage that.

I wouldn't if you could demonstrate that there is any such thing.
Show me the double blind clinical trials that can rival the success of anti-psychotic meds.

On the other hand even if you believe people can be healed by “confirmation bias” why aren’t you promoting that seen as its seems you believe that helps so many people.
I don’t agree with you on CB because I know what happened to me these last 35 years walking with God.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like a strawman.

Look, it's really simple. If you think there are better ways to deal with psychosis induced by psychiatric disorders then anti-psychotic meds, then show me the double blind clinical trials that have at least an equal success rate in treating such people.

You can't, can you?
There no such demonstrations, are there?

Off course there aren't.

 

[Eddi]

The buffoonery was the supposed great thing drugs do, but when you look at the side effects of the drugs you’re promoting, not so good. Short term help but long term and according to the warnings it’s not that great.
This is the only option you present and ignore any spiritual solutions that “could” be the root cause, but not always and that’s people being tormented by demons.

I used to believe my mental health problems were spiritual in nature

i.e. I thought they were demonic

The moment I realised they weren't was for me a massive breakthrough that lead to a big improvement in my mental health

In Jesus's time people had no concept of mental illness so they explained it in terms of "demons"

People in this day and age should know better

I suppose in some ways it's better to be haunted by a demon than it is to have a mental illness as having a demon means there's nothing medically wrong with you, that you're not really unwell

It's a kind of denial

To believe you are haunted by a demon is to deny the fact that there's something wrong with you, that you are ill

And anyway, it can't be demonic possession because demons don't exist, they're in the same category as the tooth fairy...

 

[ElishaElijah]

And once again, you double -nay; tripple- down on strongly implying that people with psychiatric disorders involving psychosis shouldn't take anti-psychotic meds.



Show me the double blind clinical trials of these supposed "spiritual solutions".

The way you twist what people say reminds me of the leviathan spirit.
What you communicated wasn’t what I said.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I used to believe my mental health problems were spiritual in nature

i.e. I thought they were demonic

The moment I realised they weren't was for me a massive breakthrough that lead to a big improvement in my mental health

In Jesus's time people had no concept of mental illness so they explained it in terms of "demons"

People in this day and age should know better

I suppose in some ways it's better to be haunted by a demon than it is to have a mental illness as having a demon means there's nothing medically wrong with you, that you're not really unwell

It's a kind of denial

To believe you are haunted by a demon is to deny the fact that there's something wrong with you, that you are ill

And anyway, it can't be demonic possession because demons don't exist, they're in the same category as the tooth fairy...

You’re certainly entitled to have your own view and make your own decisions.
For me, I don’t accept not living or receiving from God the things He promised so I keep pressing into God. I found that He does answer and He has supernaturally intervened many time in my life.

 

[Eddi]

You’re certainly entitled to have your own view and make your own decisions.
For me, I don’t accept not living or receiving from God the things He promised so I keep pressing into God. I found that He does answer and He has supernaturally intervened many time in my life.

You sound a lot like me a few months ago

 

[ElishaElijah]

You sound a lot like me a few months ago

Well, I’m going to be sprinting through the finish line at the end of my life towards Jesus not crawling on my stomach in defeat barely making it.
But, what are some of the things God has spoken to you, promised you and what are some things God has given you?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You sound a lot like me a few months ago

And me for many years before I renounced my belief in God and the Christian faith a couple of years ago. Being who I am and what I can do, I can attest to the fact that there were no demons when other Christians claimed otherwise. However, I will admit that there were times when, in an effort to fit in, I pretended to see demons manifesting and emerging from people, but I knew it wasn't true. And now, I call bull on Christians who claim to see a demon.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Do people on here deal with the paranormal and spirits? Do you call them by other names? I call those spirits demons that aren’t The Holy Spirit.
Concerning demons, I haven’t seen a demon with my eyes but have seen them manifest in people and seen them expelled In the Name of Jesus!
They scream, snort, fits of rage, snarl, make a person disfigure their body and stuff before they’re cast out and the person is left free from them.

 

[Eddi]

Do people on here deal with the paranormal and spirits? Do you call them by other names? I call those spirits demons that aren’t The Holy Spirit.
Concerning demons, I haven’t seen a demon with my eyes but have seen them manifest in people and seen them expelled In the Name of Jesus!
They scream, snort, fits of rage, snarl, make a person disfigure their body and stuff before they’re cast out and the person is left free from them.

If demonic possession was a thing it would be known to science, it would have a different status in society than it does, eg people would graduate from universities with bachelor of science degrees in Demonology etc as opposed to it just being a fringe superstition

Just as if "alternative medicine" worked it wouldn't be "alternative" and would just be "medicine"

 

[ElishaElijah]

If demonic possession was a thing it would be known to science, it would have a different status in society than it does, eg people would graduate from universities with bachelor of science degrees in Demonology etc as opposed to it just being a fringe superstition

Just as if "alternative medicine" worked it wouldn't be "alternative" and would just be "medicine"

I thought you were a believer and born again, are you? As far as I know science deals with the physical world and have no way to study the invisible spiritual world.
Jesus’ ministry was expelling demons and there is a Derek Prince teaching and video posted on that if you want watch.