Derealization: There is no spoon

[Student of X]

Mysticism Defined by Charles S. Grob:

[...]

5. Changes in Body Image. Alterations in body image are frequently reported, often associated with dissolution of boundaries between self and others and states of depersonalization and derealization where the usual sense of one's own reality is temporarily lost or changed. Such experiences may be regarded as strange and frightening, or as mystical, oceanic states of cosmic unity, particularly when sustained within the context of belief systems conditioned for spiritual emergent encounters.

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Does The Matrix portray mystical derealization?

Having had several mystical experiences myself, I no longer regard the day-to-day waking state as the standard of reality. For me, reality has been de-realized. There is no spoon.

 

[Student of X]

When Asian meditative practices are transplanted into Western contexts, the same problems can occur. Anxiety, dissociation, depersonalization, altered perceptions, agitation, and muscular tension have been observed in western meditation practitioners (Walsh R, Roche L. Precipitation of acute psychotic episodes by intensive meditation in individuals with a history of schizophrenia).. Yet Walsh and Roche point out that "such changes are not necessarily pathologic and may reflect in part a heightened sensitivity" (p. 1086). The DSM-IV emphasizes the need to distinguish between psychopathology and meditation-related experiences:

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Voluntarily induced experiences of depersonalization or derealization form part of meditative and trance practices that are prevalent in many religions and cultures and should not be confused with Depersonalization Disorder. (p. 488)

LESSON 3.5 Meditation and Spiritual Practices

There is no spoon.


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[Student of X]

[youtube]3AirZDtIMTM[/youtube]
Sex Bob-Omb - Threshold - YouTube

 

[Student of X]

From Spiritual Emergency to Spiritual Problem: The Transpersonal Roots of the New DSM-IV Category

Abstract

Religious or Spiritual Problem is a new diagnostic category (Code V62.89) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-Fourth Edition (APA, 1994). While the acceptance of this new category was based on a proposal documenting the extensive literature on the frequent occurrence of religious and spiritual issues in clinical practice, the impetus for the proposal came from transpersonal clinicians whose initial focus was on spiritual emergencies--forms of distress associated with spiritual practices and experiences. The proposal grew out of the work of the Spiritual Emergence Network to increase the competence of mental health professionals in sensitivity to such spiritual issues. This article describes the rationale for this new category, the history of the proposal, transpersonal perspectives on spiritual emergency, types of religious and spiritual problems (with case illustrations), differential diagnostic issues, psychotherapeutic approaches, and the likely increase in number of persons seeking therapy for spiritual problems. It also presents the preliminary findings from a database of religious and spiritual problems.

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Neo Vomits - YouTube

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The Matrix has TONS of spiritual meanings, but the same meanings can be thought of as philosophical meanings, religious symbolism, etc That is one of the reasons why The Matrix is my favorite movie all-time: it has hidden meaning, it is philosophical in itself, it is interesting, it is sci-fi, and most of all it has sweet action in it, all wrapped in one taco shell.

 

[Student of X]

The Matrix has TONS of spiritual meanings, but the same meanings can be thought of as philosophical meanings, religious symbolism, etc That is one of the reasons why The Matrix is my favorite movie all-time: it has hidden meaning, it is philosophical in itself, it is interesting, it is sci-fi, and most of all it has sweet action in it, all wrapped in one taco shell.

The reason it has spiritual meanings is because it used the Monomyth formula provided by Campbell.

[youtube]8AG4rlGkCRU[/youtube]
The Matrix - Joseph Campbell Monomyth - YouTube

The reason the Monomyth pattern can be detected in world religion and myth is because of the universality of mystical experience. The Matrix is a mystical metaphor and Neo is an archetypal mystic undergoing initiation into the REAL.

But that means realizing that the day-to-day waking reality we all know and love isn't as real as we like to think...hence derealization.

 

[Quintessence]

This thread is prompting me to watch that movie again. I think I would get much more out of it now.

 

[DreadFish]

I think if someone is not prepared to experience their waking hours as less real than they expected or want to believe, then it can be a scary experience. I have experienced derealization as a result of depression and anxiety disorders, and it was a terrifying experience to think of everything as just a dream, even the people I knew and loved. Everything felt very empty and meaningless; It was a very lonely experience. But, it passed and I started living in a world that wasn't just my own dream. Mainly I think it was a bit of a misconception on my part that everything being dreamlike, or a mental projection on my part, does not mean that people are a figment of my imagination, only what I see them as or who I think they are, is a projection of my mind, but I am not alone.


Now, I experience what could be called depersonalization, but it is not from any mood disorders but through deliberate dropping of self identification with the body and hightened awareness of the present situation; thus, it is not a scary experience and is actually quite calm and peaceful.
Though I experience things as being less real in the common sense of the word, things do appear to be more real than they used to, in the sense that things are more vivid, though it is more understood that there is a dream-like nature to the appearance of all objects of perception.

Also, the very gradual, calm transition of perception based in personal conviction in the nature of things makes it easier to handle, rather than being very depressed and anxious and worrying about things being real or not because you are afraid of losing things you love


So, there is a bit of a difference between the derealization or depersonalization that are symptoms of other mood disorders (which they usually are, they dont usually come about without depression or another disorder being present already) and the derealization or depersonalization that is the result of a spiritual emergency. But, I think the main difference may be in approach and the state of the individual prior to the inception of derealization/depersonalization. I think if I had a mentor to help me handle my problems in the first place, then it would have been a different situation.


EDIT: I would also add that, in the situation where derealization/depersonalization is a symptom of another psychological disorder, usually a mood disorder, then it is believed to come about as a result of, 1) the brain slowing down sensory and mental processes to handle the overflow of anxiety and problems, thus things seem unreal (derealization), and 2) disassociation (whether willful or inadvertent) as a result of trying to separate oneself from the anxiety or problems (depersonalization). And then of course, it could be a completely different situation and neither of these situations apply


So yeah, I guess you could say the Matrix portrays this.

 

[Straw Dog]

That scene ruined my snack once. I was about to dig into some tasty ice cream when I realized that there was no spoon.

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Does The Matrix portray mystical derealization?

Having had several mystical experiences myself, I no longer regard the day-to-day waking state as the standard of reality. For me, reality has been de-realized. There is no spoon.

Is there a sense of realization within your de-realized state?