Did God make us broken?

[Phasmid]

If so, why?

 

[Willamena]

There is a crack
A crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

 

[DandyAndy]

What do you mean by broken?

 

[earlwooters]

God made us in his own image. Thats what he means. I think this is a trick question. If God created us in his own image, if we're flawed, then that means ???

 

[Pegg]

God created the first man perfect. But perfection as a standard is set by God, so living in perfection requires absolute dependence on God.

Adam did not remain dependent on God, but chose a different standard to follow. Thats how he lost perfection. All his offspring were born under the standard adopted by Adam... so we are not born with Gods perfection... we are born with Adams imperfection.

 

[Charity]

God made us in his own image. Thats what he means. I think this is a trick question. If God created us in his own image, if we're flawed, then that means ???

Man was created in the image and likeness of God.....This statement doesn't imply physical likeness to God.
God is a spirit as taught in scriptures and He does not have physical parts like a man.....It is an anthropomorphic expression.....

 

[elmarna]

god is what god is.
if i can make something"broken"; Than he can too.
So, YES god can make things broken.
WHY - is another matter entirely!

 

[sojourner]

We are perfectly created. We are not broken. But we certainly act as if we were...

 

[Katzpur]

If so, why?

Nope. He made us whole, pure and clean. We do manage to break ourselves, though.

 

[Katzpur]

God is a spirit as taught in scriptures and He does not have physical parts like a man

I would agree that the Bible teaches us that God is spirit. Where does it teach that He does not have physical parts like a man?

 

[idea]

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 93:29)
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.


God is cleaning up a mess He did not create...

(Old Testament | Isaiah 64:8)
8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

The clay is as old as the potter...The potter forms what allows itself to be formed.

 

[kepha31]

We are perfectly created. We are not broken. But we certainly act as if we were...

I'll take divine affiliation over being a totally depraved snow covered poop pile any day... (acting as if broken)

 

[DandyAndy]

GOD didn't make my body or your body like He made Adam and Eve's body - in fact, their bodies were unique in the aspect that they were the only two humans in history (other than Jesus Christ) that were not formed/created by the sexual intercourse of two human beings. Because they were not 'born of' broken or naturally sinful humans, they themselves were made perfectly or unbroken.

As I understand it, the very fact that our bodies are made by the mixing of two naturally sinful humans makes us automatically infused with the natural inclination to sin. This is how the physical aspect of our existence comes about - and the brokenness I assume you refer to - is our natural inclination to rebel against GOD and sin.

Does that mean that GOD made us broken? Did we choose brokenness (as humanity) when Adam and Eve ate the fruit? You had a sinful nature the moment you were born - does that make you 'broken?' Or does the act of sinning, being guilty of sin, what makes a person 'broken?'

Either way we are 'broken' and either way we need a savior in Jesus Christ.

 

[Katzpur]

You had a sinful nature the moment you were born - does that make you 'broken?' Or does the act of sinning, being guilty of sin, what makes a person 'broken?'

I believe the act of sinning is what makes a person "broken," not the act of being born. I prefer to think of us as having been born so fragile that we are bound to be broken if we stick around long enough. What I'm saying is that I do agree that we have a sinful nature. But it is not our sinful nature that makes us broken; it's when we give in to this nature that we break.

Either way we are 'broken' and either way we need a savior in Jesus Christ.

Since you seem (in your posts that I've read so far) to be a very reasonable individual, what would you say about an infant who dies before he or she can comprehend the difference between right and wrong? Is that infant broken?

 

[DandyAndy]

I believe the act of sinning is what makes a person "broken," not the act of being born. I prefer to think of us as having been born so fragile that we are bound to be broken if we stick around long enough.

This is a BEAUTIFUL way of explaining the situation and I agree 100%.

What I'm saying is that I do agree that we have a sinful nature. But it is not our sinful nature that makes us broken; it's when we give in to this nature that we break.

Yup.

Since you seem (in your posts that I've read so far) to be a very reasonable individual, what would you say about an infant who dies before he or she can comprehend the difference between right and wrong? Is that infant broken?

To be candid, this is an issue I have often wondered about, struggled with and flip-flopped on numerous times. But I feel confident about the conclusion I have come to.

No, that infant is not 'broken' as we seem to have been defining it.

The child has not committed a sin (we could talk about the ‘age of accountability’ and when a child is able to sin, but I personally think it’s a waste of time and I like to personally stay away from it) so I see no reason why the child would suffer the consequences of sin if it is innocent. Only the guilty are subject to the punishment.

I don't like to make judgement calls of salvation, the proverbial thumbs up or thumbs down, because it isn't my place to make that decision. But it seems that this hypothetical infant would certainly be in the presence of GOD for eternity.

 

[Azekual]

To be blunt, yes. Because we live in an imperfect realm where it is nearly impossible to create, much less sustain, perfection (especially when you give your perfect creation free will).

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

I believe that man is perfect and whole before God, we are now, and we always have been. What makes us live up to less then our potential is things like bad situations growing up, wrong views, conditioning, social pressure, and all the things of the world. However, if we get back into the state of mind that is Christ-mind, which is already within us, we can live the life of fufillment and joy we were always meant to live. We already are that on the inside, we've just lost sight of it, and we need to look within to find it.

 

[Azekual]

I believe that man is perfect and whole before God, we are now, and we always have been.

I disagree. We were once perfect, but Eve just had to take a bite of that apple.
We became stained with Sin, and are thus imperfect. That's where Christ comes in.
Because there is only one way to forgive sin (the spilling of blood), God decided to create a "back door" perse. Jesus was brought to earth and killed in the place of another (jews used lambs for the same purpose). Because he was divine the effect was quite a bit stronger, Jesus' sacrifice forgave all current and future sins of all mankind (I don't know if past sins were covered).
Now when you die, if you asked for the forgiveness, God will see Jesus instead of you. It's a pretty ingenious method, but hey, he's God.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

Azekual- heh, I must be a more liberal Christian then you are, but I obviously reject the notion of original sin.

 

[Katzpur]

I disagree. We were once perfect, but Eve just had to take a bite of that apple.
We became stained with Sin, and are thus imperfect. That's where Christ comes in.
Because there is only one way to forgive sin (the spilling of blood), God decided to create a "back door" perse. Jesus was brought to earth and killed in the place of another (jews used lambs for the same purpose). Because he was divine the effect was quite a bit stronger, Jesus' sacrifice forgave all current and future sins of all mankind (I don't know if past sins were covered).
Now when you die, if you asked for the forgiveness, God will see Jesus instead of you. It's a pretty ingenious method, but hey, he's God.

So a day-old baby who dies is "stained with sin," due to the actions of one woman 6000 years ago (who committed her "sin" without even understanding the difference between good and evil)? Obviously if a person who is "stained with sin" dies in this state, a truly just God would have to punish that person. So, we have a day-old baby who dies "stained with sin" and God punishes that baby how? By condemning him to eternal punishment. Something's wrong here.