Did Jesus and or Mary ever believe in Trinity?

[LuisDantas]

Did Jesus and or Mary ever believe in Trinity?

Mary never believed in Trinity.
She never spoke the word Trinity or any of its constituents from her mouth. Right? Please
If yes, please quote from her.
Regards

Mary, if she existed as a real person, lived long enough to have at least one son.

There is very little record of her existence, and even less of whatever beliefs she might have had.

If she did exist, it is entirely conceivable that she might perceive the Sacred by a Trinity model. There is simply no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Muffled]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Wasn't Jesus eloquent? Please
Had Jesus believed in Trinity, he would have spoken it clearly. What would have happened to him if Jesus and Mary had spoken the word Trinity from their mouth. Obviously Jesus and or Mary never believed in it.
Please quote from Mary if one could.
Regards

Then quote from Jesus where he spoke the word Trinity from his mouth.
Jesus was a Jew, please quote from Torah if Trinity has been mentioned as a belief of a believer.
One uses the word "I believe" frequently in one's posts, that suggests/ means that one is not certain about it. Please
Regards

This is it in a nutshell: John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

I believe that is an assumption on your part. I use the word "believe" even though I am certain because other people see my certainty as just a belief.

I believe Jesus could turn a phrase but that is not what you are asking. With God the question will always be pertinence. Jesus reserves talk about Trinity for His disciples and therby the Church. It is not pertinent to a Muslim or Jew because neither has what a Christian has.

I believe you are asking me to speculate. I suspect it would have confused Jews and Muslims even more.

I believe you are using the word "obviously" because you can't prove it. I can say it is obvious to me that Jesus and Mary did believe it. It's so obvious that we see it so differently?

 

[Muffled]

Trinity is not original in "Christianity" it has existed in pagan civilizations even before the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

How Ancient Trinitarian Gods Influenced Adoption of the Trinity

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It took many years to form that doctrine.

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Even the word "incarnation" is not found in the bible.

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I believe trinities have always existed but that doesn't make them The Trinity.

I believe that is irrelevant.

 

[Muffled]

its not a number. it speaks of three things that were not created. 1. God, 2. Spirit, 3. Water.

doesn't order them in any number, per se.

I believe that is a trinity but not The Trinity which is God.

 

[Muffled]

trinity is an understanding of god after careful study of the new testament. trinity is a descriptive word for god.

I believe that is false; the attribute of God is unity. Trinity is a concept.

 

[MJFlores]

You said it all when you established that to understand the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, one must carefully study the NT. Remember though that Jesus never had any thing to do with the NT as his Bible was the Tanach which teaches the Absolute Oneness of God. Jesus never even dreamed the NT would ever rise.

Ben you are correct that God is one and there is no Trinity.
The Trinity is not in the Old Testament or the Tanach (in your description) and the Trinity is not even in the New Testament.

However what I could not agree (on what you stated) is Jesus never had anything to do with the NT, never even dreamed the NT would ever rise. He did in fact knew it.

The terminology - Gospel is the standard term for the first four books of the New Testament, and Jesus mentioned the word "gospel" in the Synoptic gospels Matthew and Mark
Matthew 24:14, Matthew 26:13, Mark 8:35, Mark 10:29, Mark 13:10, Mark 14:9, Mark 16:15

And how did his apostles wrote the Gospel of Jesus Christ? From the bible:

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26

And they wrote it down so now we have the Gospel.

I perceive organized christianity starts with the first council of nicaea where christian doctrine gets it's form. and the doctrine relies heavily on the new testament.

Yup it started there, the First Council of Nicaea created Nicene Christianity in 325 Anno Domini - 225 years after the last apostle John died in his exile in the island of Patmos. There Jesus was made god in 325 AD in Nicaea and then the Holy Spirit was made god in 381 AD in Constantinople. These places are now in present day Turkey. And what is surprising is, it is near Pergamum. If Pergamum doesn't ring a bell - a map is provided for you below.

 

[LuisDantas]

Jesus was a Jew, please quote from Torah if Trinity has been mentioned as a belief of a believer.

Are you implying that you expect no valid innovation of doctrine to ever arise without clear support from the Torah?

Gosh, that would be a sad state of affairs.

 

[Fool]

I believe that is a trinity but not The Trinity which is God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot know the kingdom of God.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe trinities have always existed but that doesn't make them The Trinity.

I believe that is irrelevant.

You are right. Trinities have existed and in pagan roots.

Sumeria
“The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu’s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods” ( The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54-55)

Babylonia
“The ancient Babylonians recognised the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity” (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22-23).

Greece
“In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote: ‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ ” (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197-198).

“The origin of the conception is entirely pagan”

Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:

“It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan . . .

What is not pagan? From the bible:

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe that is true but no matter how it was given the Covenant of Law is still a covenant of law. I believe if one were just speaking of law and grace that would be true but I am speaking of covenants. No doubt a great deal of God's law is not temporal but eternal and comes through in grace.

And the Covenant of Law will be a Covenant of Law until heaven and earth pass away. (Mat. 5:17-19) In the meantime, according to what Jesus said, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) The Law itself came through as a result of God's grace. Otherwise, we would not be able to live in society.

 

[Ben Avraham]

No, what I question is how a guy who got turned into hamburger meat only ever seems to be portrayed post-resurrection as having a couple of nail holes only.

Well, like myself, at least I understand now that you too do not believe in bodily resurrection.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I never understood why the Trinity is such a hot topic. I don't believe in the existence of the God of Abraham, but it seems to me that he is understood to be supremely transcendent and, according to some, his nature woud be inherently a mystery beyond mere human understanding.
For that reason, I don't think it even makes sense for humans to presume to know whether his identity is enumerable. To suggest that he "must be" one and only is to deny his transcendent nature.

Okay Mr. Dantas, you don't believe in the existence of the God of Abraham Who happens to be the same as mine and Whom I like to refer to as the Primal Cause. It's all right if you can't believe in the existence of the Primal Cause; can you tell us what caused the Universe to exist since it could not have caused itself to exist?

 

[LuisDantas]

Okay Mr. Dantas, you don't believe in the existence of the God of Abraham Who happens to be the same as mine and Whom I like to refer to as the Primal Cause. It's all right if you can't believe in the existence of the Primal Cause; can you tell us what caused the Universe to exist since it could not have caused itself to exist?

How do you know that there is a primal cause, or the need for any?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Well, like myself, at least I understand now that you too do not believe in bodily resurrection.

Depends. Do I believe the story as is? No. Do I believe there might be a chance some ancients saw some bizarre medical "miracle" and said it was a resurrection? Yes. Do I believe resurrection is a popular theistic trope? Yup.