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Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
HAre Krishna did all the same miracles Jesus did. Here are some of the similarities between Jesus and Krishna.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm
Actually @Riders - it is not Hare Krishna - that is the society that goes around preaching - the entity you refer to is Lord Krishna - and one of his most well known miracles was embodying the entire universe in himself - I have alluded to this elsewhere - no religious figure that I know of has pulled off something quite that spectacular - not once - not twice but three times - once as a child and twice as an adult - he conclusively proved that he was an incarnation of the supreme lord
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hardly so but reasons to believe are far more than that, it's in the fruit of lives well lived in Christ


You do not seem to realize that you did not post a valid source. Archaeology also has peer review. Just like in debates about evolution you need to find a well respected professional journal. If those claims are accurate that is the first place that the finders of this evidence would have published it.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That is a rather ...... remarkable linkage - more people celebrate Christmas than Easter - there is big money involved - and holidays in many areas - that is what motivates a fair bit of the celebration.
That's true, Easter is more about money and celebrating than about the resurrection, for most people.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I disagree and believe the gospels are eyewitness accounts and they do make that claim.

The Case for the Eyewitness Status of the Gospel Authors - Break Point.​

Citing apologetics websites from people with no relevant education on the Biblical texts is really not meaningful. Like you, the website largely cites the Bible on the assumption that its claims are true. This is entirely the habit I am questioning.

Regarding whether the Gospels claim to be eyewitness accounts, you (and the website) are simply incorrect. The Luke 1 passage, for example, does not say that the author was an eyewitness. It claims that the stories were "handed down" from eyewitnesses - meaning Luke is a second-hand account at best. None of the non-Gospel passages mention the Gospels, so they are irrelevant.
"By any reasonable evaluation, the resurrection accounts from the four Gospels are superbly consistent eyewitness testimonies. The central truths - that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and that the resurrected Jesus appeared to many people - are clearly taught in each of the four Gospels.

Again, these Christian apologetics websites you are citing are simply inaccurate. I would highly encourage you start reading some of the peer-reviewed academic literature out there on the nature, composition, and accuracy of the Gospels. Mark, the first Gospel to be written, does not "clearly teach" that Jesus appeared to many people at all. It ends with the women finding the empty tomb, being afraid, and telling no one about it. (Mark 16:8 - before you cite any verses beyond that, it's well established that the verses beyond 8 are not original to the text and were added later.)

Not quite. The life of Jesus Christ had a huge impact upon the world the from the moment He arrived starting in Bethlehem and from the start His life, His ministry and then the spread of the gospel by the apostles was noticed and met with extreme resistance by many of those in religious or governmental authority.

Historical Influence of Jesus

Your claims, and the claims of the website, again stem from just citing the Bible's claims as fact. The largest reason Christianity had such a huge rise in adherents within 300-400 years was its establishment as Rome's state religion, culminating in the outlawing of paganism in the late 4th century.

I don't see this conversation going much further if you are simply going to continue quoting the Bible as fact, when that is exactly where we disagree. I'll give it one more round if you want.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I'm not aware of any miracles Joseph Smith did like healing, raising the dead, walking on water

But being associated with the occult and owning a jupiter talisman does not impress me (not positively at least)

And dying in a gunfight? I have to pass on that

I was not talking bout J Smith, so why you are
is your deal.
But since you are trying to compare "jesus" and
j smith, of course they are different.
"Jesus" was given the most shameful execution the
Romans had to offer. If that is better than being killed
while trying to defend the faith, then it is to you.
And of course it makes all the difference as to
whether there really is a god who is using these
people to impress others.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Now, I have decided. I know that Jesus is alive and the Bible is reliable.
But I did not initially just decide. Initially, I searched, and praying and kept asking God to show me where is the truth and what is the truth. I had been through enough "religions" and really did not want to go through another fake experience and waste of time. Through various circumstances, over a period of quite awhile God answered my questions clearly, personally. It was not in a church or group setting. I was only with my husband. When I realized that Jesus was who He claimed to be and especially when I realized my real need of Him as a Savior, my understanding and perception of everything changed literally overnight. My husband was also born again sometime during that same time period, although we never vocalized the exact moment or said any out loud prayer individually or together. The scriptures which in the past were so confusing, became like an open book. The theme throughout from Genesis to Revelation was so clear and made complete sense. Not only that God immediately changed and healed a relationship with someone who had become so estranged that there was no friendship left...and within two weeks this person was saved by Jesus. too. The peace and forgiveness which enveloped our lives was beyond our ability and even our desire.

You guys are too funny sometimes. You decided that
you know.

You decided to know that-
A person has been alive for over 2000 years and the
bible is "reliable" even though it is full of inaccuracies
and outright fairy tales.

Did you read my account of the Mormon missionary who
told me he had prayed long and fervently to god,
is the BoM true?

Eventually, he got the Answer, god said, yes it
is all true.

You do understand how this works?

?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Why don't you simply try reading the Bible and ask Jesus to show you whether it is true or not. Jesus preformed all kinds of miracles, yet people still refused to believe. Miracles are not enough if some does not want to know the truth.

Why do you assume that others have not tried that?
I know the bible a lot better than lo and many
a christian.

"Jesus" is SAID to have performed miracles. Same
is true for an immense number of other people.

Now IF he had been executed and came back to life,
that would really be something!

Go back to Pilate and ask if he would care to try
again, then go right back to preachin'.

That is not at all how it went, though.
Why dont you quote a few relevant verses for us,
about what they claimed to have seen.

Like "Paul's" story, say. What did he "see"?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Citing apologetics websites from people with no relevant education on the Biblical texts is really not meaningful. Like you, the website largely cites the Bible on the assumption that its claims are true. This is entirely the habit I am questioning.

Regarding whether the Gospels claim to be eyewitness accounts, you (and the website) are simply incorrect. The Luke 1 passage, for example, does not say that the author was an eyewitness. It claims that the stories were "handed down" from eyewitnesses - meaning Luke is a second-hand account at best. None of the non-Gospel passages mention the Gospels, so they are irrelevant.


Again, these Christian apologetics websites you are citing are simply inaccurate. I would highly encourage you start reading some of the peer-reviewed academic literature out there on the nature, composition, and accuracy of the Gospels. Mark, the first Gospel to be written, does not "clearly teach" that Jesus appeared to many people at all. It ends with the women finding the empty tomb, being afraid, and telling no one about it. (Mark 16:8 - before you cite any verses beyond that, it's well established that the verses beyond 8 are not original to the text and were added later.)



Your claims, and the claims of the website, again stem from just citing the Bible's claims as fact. The largest reason Christianity had such a huge rise in adherents within 300-400 years was its establishment as Rome's state religion, culminating in the outlawing of paganism in the late 4th century.

I don't see this conversation going much further if you are simply going to continue quoting the Bible as fact, when that is exactly where we disagree. I'll give it one more round if you want.

Quoting apologetics websites is quite effective,
with non believers. It is like citing creosites
for evidence against evolution.

It just does not have the intended effect. :D
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Do you have any understanding about the meaning resurrection at all? The whole point of Jesus being resurrected is for the sake of humanity and the promise of new, eternal life in glorified bodies that will never hurt or die. This transformation of dead bodies will apply to all believers whether they were beheaded, died of cancer, were mangled in a car wreck, fell off cliff, were eaten by a shark or whatever. God is beyond science and the limited understanding of humanity.


However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, madei of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, wel shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Cor. 15:46-54

Do you honestly think that anyone can live long in
a christian society, with all of its constant stream of
propaganda, and NOT know the ideas of the church?

Seriously? OF freakin' course we know what you
guys think about the so called resurrection.

Do YOU understand that not everyone thinks it makes
any sense?

A would be revolutionary gets executed for rabble
rousing, and his followers concocted a way to get
him to live on, kind of like with Che Guevara t shirts.

Lets see how you guys spin it.

The creator of the universe invented people, and,
sin. which he hates. He made people so that they
inevitably would sin, for which he has to punish
them in terrible ways.

So, he finally split off part of himself, let that part
look as if it had been killed in order to pay himself
for these sins.... being.... committed...

Really?

This is what you decided you know is true?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
There are many claims to miracles and some may be akin to the miracles of the magicians of Pharaoh It boils down to darkness or light. What is the fruit of them?

"You shall know them by their fruit" Jesus

Nah, It boils down to believing in magic. Or not.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Not at all.... I have a problem with someone using divination (which the Bible forbids) to find 'a book' inspired by 'an angel' which declares all other churches have been corrupted

and then goes and joins a methodist church where Joseph Smith meets his wife (after being told to stay away from these corrupt churches)

It doesn't ring true
Wow. I don't think you got one single "fact" right. If you were shooting for 100%, you hit the target.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Hardly, any evidence will do... I reject the mormon evidence partly due to the nature of it.

Ringing with too much spiritism and as you may or may not know the first mormon temple was.... wait for it... a masonic lodge... which by the way is a bit occult

Going by Jesus words the judgement is whether a person loved light or darkness and so there is enough going on that a person is loving the light or loving the darkness by saving faith or rejection of it
You just keep coming up with more and more bull****, don't you? You know, I really don't give a damn whether you believe Mormonism to be true or not, but don't you at least have the balls to not just make things up as you go? The first Mormon temple was in no way a mason lodge. :rolleyes:
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Wow. I don't think you got one single "fact" right. If you were shooting for 100%, you hit the target.

Thanks for joining in. Its pretty funny, the
"does not ring true". :D

Not that I believe J Smith, or much of the bible,
but as for what does or does not ring true,
that is not much of a standard.

An awful lot of most improbable things have
happened.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
@Audie, I'll say one thing for you. You really spread your disdain for religion around. A lot of what you say about Mormonism would probably kind of irritate me, but I know that once you've said what you have to say, Mormonism will go to the end of the line and you'll bash every other brand of believer before you get back to us again. ;) (And for some crazy reason, I can't help but like you in spite of it. :p)
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
You just keep coming up with more and more bull****, don't you? You know, I really don't give a damn whether you believe Mormonism to be true or not, but don't you at least have the balls to not just make things up as you go? The first Mormon temple was in no way a mason lodge. :rolleyes:

Haha.

Those guys do the same thing when they try to argue
against evolution! They've not a clue in the world so
they either quote some anti science* website, or,
make things up as it suits them.

*or anti LDS, as the case may be.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
@Audie, I'll say one thing for you. You really spread your disdain for religion around. A lot of what you say about Mormonism would probably kind of irritate me, but I know that once you've said what you have to say, Mormonism will go to the end of the line and you'll bash every other brand of believer before you get back to us again. ;)

Oh it is worse than that!

I think the basis of LDS is entirely a fantasy, BUT-
Who really cares, if it suits them?

For lo, the church consistently teaches outstanding
values and the Mormon people are as good
citizens as one could ask for.

I do not criticize Mormons. I have no complaints.
 
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