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Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
It appears all the apostle were willing to hold that belief till death

Watergate had only a matter of 5 weeks or so before the whole lot of em were singing like canaries or incriminated various ways
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
whirlingmerc said:
It appears all the apostle were willing to hold that belief till death

Watergate had only a matter of 5 weeks or so before the whole lot of em were singing like canaries or incriminated various ways
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The thing is God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

Acts 2:24; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+3:15&version=NIV']Acts 3:15; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4:10&version=NIV']Acts 4:10; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5:30&version=NIV']Acts 5:30; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+13:30&version=NIV']Acts 13:30[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

Acts 10:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

upload_2019-4-21_23-14-34.jpeg
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
MJFlores said:
The thing is God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15; Acts 4:10; Acts 5:30; Acts 13:30

Acts 10:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

View attachment 28464
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It appears it was a vision similar to the one the disciples had on Mount Tabor.

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." (Matthew 17:1–9, KJV)

Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.(Baha’i Writings)

I believe the resurrection was a spiritual vision also.
 
Bethsheba Ashe

Bethsheba Ashe

Member
shmogie said:
How do you know it isn´t ? We have significant evidence that it is true. Do you have evidence it isn¨t true ?
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I may have evidence both for and against this proposition.
Jesus Christ in Greek is: Ιησου Χριστου , which has the Isopsephy value of 719.
This is significant because every twelve hours the hour hand and seconds hands of an analog clock align exactly 719 times and in John 11:9 it says: Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours of daylight? If ‎anyone walks in the daytime, he will not stumble, because ‎he sees by the light of this world.'
‎
Have you noticed the New Testament is obsessed with time? More specifically the hours if the day? If Jesus was the personification of the light of day, then you would expect him to die once a year and rise the morning afterwards like they believed the Sun did. If so then he's been "risen" for the past 2,000 years.
 
N

nightshadetwine

New Member
Bethsheba Ashe said:
I may have evidence both for and against this proposition.
Jesus Christ in Greek is: Ιησου Χριστου , which has the Isopsephy value of 719.
This is significant because every twelve hours the hour hand and seconds hands of an analog clock align exactly 719 times and in John 11:9 it says: Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours of daylight? If ‎anyone walks in the daytime, he will not stumble, because ‎he sees by the light of this world.'
‎
Have you noticed the New Testament is obsessed with time? More specifically the hours if the day? If Jesus was the personification of the light of day, then you would expect him to die once a year and rise the morning afterwards like they believed the Sun did. If so then he's been "risen" for the past 2,000 years.
Click to expand...

I think there's something to this. Notice Jesus has twelve disciples. In ancient Egyptian religion the sun god would go through the twelve hours of the night in the underworld and the twelve hours of the day in the sky. While the sun god was in the underworld he would go through a baptism, transfiguration, death, and resurrection.

I think the Gospels and the Egyptian myths are telling the same story.

The Search for God in Ancient Egypt By Jan Assmann:
A major part of the Egyptians' astronomical knowledge served specifically to measure time, especially the lunar month, whose beginning rested on observation, not calculation, as well as the hours, whose length varied--for day and night, from sunrise to sunset and sunset to sunrise, were always each divided into twelve segments of equal length. Above all, however, this knowledge was related to the course of the sun, which was conceived of as a journey through the sky and the netherworld and described down to the last detail...
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Becoming Divine: An Introduction to Deification in Western Culture By M. David Litwa:
After his rebirth, the king entered a long hall oriented east-west with twelve pillars. The twelve columns may have represented the twelve hours of the Sun God's journey through the netherworld. By processing through the colonnade, the king imitated the voyage of the Sun God in his journey by night in the underworld. Now seething with divine energy, the king finally reappeared as if from a divine womb into the sunny court...
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Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many by Erik Hornung:
In his daily descent into the realm of the dead the sun god Re must also become “Osiris,” for he dies and appears in the underworld as a “corpse.” But in this case the Egyptians imagine that there is a true union. Unlike the rest of the deceased, Re does not assume the title “Osiris”; instead he incorporates the ruler of the dead into his own being so profoundly that both have one body and can “speak with one mouth.” Osiris does indeed seem to be absorbed into Re, and becomes the night sun, which awakens the underworld dwellers from the sleep of death.
Click to expand...

The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt by Richard H. Wilkinson:
The great sun god Re was thought to grow old each day and to 'die' each night,
and then to be born or resurrected each day at dawn
Click to expand...

Death and the Afterlife in Ancient Egypt By John H. Taylor:
According to Egyptian belief, water held important purifying and life giving qualities. Each dawn was
a repitition of the orginal birth of the sun god from the watery chaos of Nun. Hence lustration came to be closely associated with rebirth...
Click to expand...

The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day edited by Eva Von Dassow:
Every evening the aged sun entered the underworld and travelled through it, immersed in Nun, only to emerge at dawn as Khepri, the newborn sun. Thus, the waters of Nun had a rejuvenating, baptismal quality essential to rebirth.
Click to expand...

Following Osiris by Mark Smith:
The embrace of Osiris and Re in the underworld involves a mutual exchange of the life-sustaining properties possessed by each god. Osiris is renewed by virtue of his contact with Re and Re in turn is transfigured by virtue of contact with Osiris.
Click to expand...
 
Bethsheba Ashe

Bethsheba Ashe

Member
nightshadetwine said:
I think there's something to this. Notice Jesus has twelve disciples. In ancient Egyptian religion the sun god would go through the twelve hours of the night in the underworld and the twelve hours of the day in the sky. While the sun god was in the underworld he would go through a baptism, transfiguration, death, and resurrection.

I think the Gospels and the Egyptian myths are telling the same story.

The Search for God in Ancient Egypt By Jan Assmann:


Becoming Divine: An Introduction to Deification in Western Culture By M. David Litwa:


Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many by Erik Hornung:


The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt by Richard H. Wilkinson:


Death and the Afterlife in Ancient Egypt By John H. Taylor:


The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day edited by Eva Von Dassow:


Following Osiris by Mark Smith:
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting all of that. Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of, except in an Israelite context. The many apocryphal tales of Jesus may have began as stories about the sunlight and the day, just as the stories of Jacob and Esau are about the Summer and the Winter. Jesus would never have been central to Judaism because sun worship was idolatry, but nevertheless he may have been an important component to the wider cultural beliefs of the Jews at that time.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
shmogie said:
How do you know it isn´t ? We have significant evidence that it is true. Do you have evidence it isn¨t true ?
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Yes, we have evidence that it is not true, The New Testament, it is a book of theology/mythology and the source of your beliefs.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
lukethethird said:
Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?
The answer depends entirely on ones indoctrination, or lack thereof.
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To me the answer lies on one's knowledge or education about what the Bible really teaches.
From the Bible we learn that Jesus did die, and his God resurrected the dead Jesus from the grave.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
well if THAT Guy failed.....and He is dead

so are the rest of us

and Man upon this planet is a complete mystery
without resolve

and without hope

extinction the only fate awaiting
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Bethsheba Ashe said:
I may have evidence both for and against this proposition.
Jesus Christ in Greek is: Ιησου Χριστου , which has the Isopsephy value of 719.
This is significant because every twelve hours the hour hand and seconds hands of an analog clock align exactly 719 times and in John 11:9 it says: Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours of daylight? If ‎anyone walks in the daytime, he will not stumble, because ‎he sees by the light of this world.'
‎
Have you noticed the New Testament is obsessed with time? More specifically the hours if the day? If Jesus was the personification of the light of day, then you would expect him to die once a year and rise the morning afterwards like they believed the Sun did. If so then he's been "risen" for the past 2,000 years.
Click to expand...
A yearly death would be taking back Jesus' ransom sacrifice for us.
This is why Hebrews 9:27-28 informs us 'appointed to die once'.....
In other words, Jesus sacrifice for us was better than any animal sacrifice could be - Hebrew 9:23-25.

In the Greek I do Not find the word 'daylight' at John 11:9-10, but just 12 hours of the day. Day as in 1/2 of 24 hours.
 
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