Did Jesus Lie?

[lostwanderingsoul]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

 

[JRMcC]

My opinion: It doesn't all line up because the story isn't literally true.

 

[wizanda]

Though Yeshua went to heaven, the resurrection story is stupid and doesn't match in any of the gospels. Thus he didn't lie, Christianity did.

 

[Kenny]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

Paradise (or Abrahams bosom--as it is also referred to) was a temporal holding place of blessing until Jesus fulfilled his mission to redeem mankind. When he died, he preached to those who were waiting for the Messiah in Paradise and when he arose from the dead he took them with him to Heaven.

Luke 16:
22 And it came to pass , that the beggar died , and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died , and was buried ;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he criedand said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, thathe may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said , Son, remember that thouin thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted , and thou art tormented .
26 Andbeside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed : so thatthey which would pass from hence to you cannot ; neither can they passto us, that would come from thence.

Matt 27:
52 And the resting-places of the dead came open; and the bodies of a number of sleeping saints came to life;
53 And coming out of their resting-places, after he had come again from the dead, they went into the holy town and were seen by a number of people.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ alsohath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring usto God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

[thau]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

Why do you ask, is this a major stumbling block for you?

If so, well you have come to the right place --- filled with scrutinizers looking not for the truth, but to trip up God by dissecting His Word into their own favored interpretations. (One contradiction or paradox is all apparently needed to remain content on the outside looking in. Meanwhile, John Cardinal Henry Newman says “a thousand difficulties does not make for one doubt.”)

Jesus knew denials and refusals such as this would come even in his time, which is why He said --- “If you will not believe in me then put faith in the works that I do.” But even signs and wonders will not draw closer the one of a “sluggish heart.”

To answer your question --- Jesus/God can be in many places all at once. So perhaps He was in paradise (another word nit picked for ulterior motives) and the nether world at the same time. After all, Jesus is capable of giving the prayers of 100 million souls His singular attention simultaneously.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yet another point that the Bible is a real messed up work. Good op that yet shows it's true origins of which it's a made up and man made work.

Another lie is how Jesus is portrayed as a Jew but the way the Bible is written, shows Jesus's lack of knowledge about Judaism itself.

11 errors by Jesus and friends. | ReligiousForums.com

 

[Skwim]

Paradise (or Abrahams bosom--as it is also referred to) was a temporal holding place of blessing until Jesus fulfilled his mission to redeem mankind. When he died, he preached to those who were waiting for the Messiah in Paradise and when he arose from the dead he took them with him to Heaven.

How do you know this to be true?
How do you know this to be true?

 

[Norrin-6-]

I'm not saying Jesus never told a lie, but it's silly to speculate based on an inconsistencies in the biblical texts. You could say that the bible is written by a bunch of people who couldn't get their stories straight, and largely that is how it reads, but the fact is the writings contained within were written independently from one another, not made for a compilation which is what it became, and these types of discrepancies weren't of that much importance to these people, hence you get the editor of Genesis including two different creation stories in succession.

Yes, there is a contradiction. Let's say Jesus never (ever) lied. One of those stories sounds more far fetched than the other. Pick which one.

 

[Skwim]

I'm not saying Jesus never told a lie, but it's silly to speculate based on an inconsistencies in the biblical texts. You could say that the bible is written by a bunch of people who couldn't get their stories straight, and largely that is how it reads, but the fact is the writings contained within were written independently from one another, not made for a compilation which is what it became, and these types of discrepancies weren't of that much importance to these people, hence you get the editor of Genesis including two different creation stories in succession.

Yes, there is a contradiction. Let's say Jesus never (ever) lied. One of those stories sounds more far fetched than the other. Pick which one.

I believe the question should be taken in the spirit of the story. Even if it's pure fiction, take it in that context, just as you would if asked a question about James Bond's bedroom exploits.

 

[arthra]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

well if you take the verses of the Gospel and only follow one translation you are leaving out the other possible meanings... there were no punctuation marks or spaces to distinguish the words very well... and most scholars believe Jesus spoke in the Aramaic tongue and not in Koine Geek which is the earliest translation we have today.. but let's consider the translations:

Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Without punctuation in the Greek it could just as well have read something like this:

Truly I tell you today.... you will be with me in paradise."

Let's consider the different ways of calculating time ..

The days of the week and how time was calculated vary between the Roman ways and the Jewish ways... A day starts after sunset for the Jews... The Sabbath started on what would be Friday evening... For some the day begins at sunrise... for most modern Americans it begins at midnight...

Consider that there was a solar Essene calendar in use apart from the Jewish calendar and yet again a Roman calendar.

The three days could also be a reference to prophetic time and not simply a literal astronomical three days.

 

[Norrin-6-]

I believe the question should be taken in the spirit of the story. Even if it's pure fiction, take it in that context, just as you would if asked a question about James Bond's exploits.

That makes good bait for apologists and antichrists. I'll step aside.

 

[Norrin-6-]

Without punctuation in the Greek it could just as well have read something like this:

Truly I tell you today.... you will be with me in paradise."

That goes well with Jesus' other famous quote:
"Truly I will tell you tomorrow... uh, I'll tell you tomorrow."

 

[Kolibri]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

We have to consider that punctuation changes meaning. But where do we put the comma?

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." - KJV
"And he said to him: 'Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.'" - NWT

Totally different meaning as to what the word 'today' was modifying.

 

[Kenny]

I'm not saying Jesus never told a lie, but it's silly to speculate based on an inconsistencies in the biblical texts. You could say that the bible is written by a bunch of people who couldn't get their stories straight, and largely that is how it reads, but the fact is the writings contained within were written independently from one another, not made for a compilation which is what it became, and these types of discrepancies weren't of that much importance to these people, hence you get the editor of Genesis including two different creation stories in succession.

Yes, there is a contradiction. Let's say Jesus never (ever) lied. One of those stories sounds more far fetched than the other. Pick which one.

I've heard these statements again and again. I have come to the conclusion that it remains the simple result of two people looking at the same information and coming to two completely different conclusions as it happens so many times in the scientific world.

Of course, I remain at the opposite spectrum. Feel free to pull out the next statement out of the usual playbook.

 

[Awoon]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

The writer of the story would say "My Bad," because the batteries in his recorder died at the moment of death. lol

 

[Kenny]

How do you know this to be true?
How do you know this to be true?

Of course, the usual answer is "how do you now this to be false?". Only time will tell who is correct.

However, my answer was to the poster who had a question for their understanding and edification and not whether you believe its true or not.

 

[psychoslice]

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

See the difference ?.

 

[Skwim]

Of course, the usual answer is "how do you now this to be false?".

Which is a child's retort.

Only time will tell who is correct.

But you stated it as fact.

Paradise. . .was a temporal holding place of blessing until Jesus fulfilled his mission to redeem mankind.​

And

When he died, he preached to those who were waiting for the Messiah in Paradise and when he arose from the dead he took them with him to Heaven.​

However, my answer was to the poster who had a question for their understanding and edification and not whether you believe its true or not.

Doesn't make any difference who you posted it in response to or why. You stated it as a matter of fact.

Paradise. . .was a temporal holding place of blessing until Jesus fulfilled his mission to redeem mankind.​

And

When he died, he preached to those who were waiting for the Messiah in Paradise and when he arose from the dead he took them with him to Heaven.​

 

[roger1440]

The Bible says in Luke 23:43 that Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise that same day. However, three days later Jesus told Mary in John 20:17 that He had not yet ascended to Heaven. So did He lie to the thief? Or did He lie to Mary? Was He in Heaven with the thief on Friday evening or had He not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday morning? It does not seem possible for both to be true so He either lied or somehow made a mistake.

If you take Luke’s version and merge it with John’s version, you end up with a version that is neither like Luke’s or John’s version. The same would happen when we combine the virgin birth stories of Matthew and Luke. It not the individual stories are not in agreement, it’s that each author approaches it from a different angle.

 

[Norrin-6-]

If you take Luke’s version and merge it with John’s version, you end up with a version that is neither like Luke’s or John’s version. The same would happen when we combine the virgin birth stories of Matthew and Luke. It not the individual stories are not in agreement, it’s that each author approaches it from a different angle.

You're totally missing the mark. The problem with merging gospels applies when you have a harmonized gospel which does not take into account the discrepancies that one should find if reading the gospels apart from one another. The value in reading the gospels apart from one another is that you'll find what happens in the story of Jesus's life largely depends on which gospel you read. If the texts were reliable you should be able to merge the gospels together and get the fuller story of Jesus's life and ministry, which is the story that being covered over the four gospels. You don't get to say Jesus lived four different versions of his own life from different angles. Too bad.