Did Jesus practice the occult?

[MamaTweedy]

I believe so

 

[JayJayDee]

I never provided anything malicious. And every one of your posts to me says either 'wrong', 'try again', or 'lol', with a condescending tone. Be at ease, and remain in peace with me.

You've expressed an obvious belief in outdated and stigmatized language, which results from, and in superstition. I can infer this, because you call things with very natural methods and outcomes, within an outdated culture of specific names (divination, magic, occult, etc.).

You will not convince someone who does not wish to be convinced. :ignore:

Holy Spirit is supernatural power from God. Humans do not 'naturally' possess supernatural power because it is....well...'supernatural'. i.e. it is not something that was a natural part of their design. As physical beings who were designed to live on earth in paradise conditions, there was obviously no need for humans to possess this kind of power. After the fall, when situations arose that warranted the use of God's spirit in a miraculous way, some individual humans who were blessed with holy spirit had supernatural things happen to them and could perform supernatural feats, but only with his permission and only in a limited way, according to his will. There was never any doubt about the source of the power, which was openly acknowledged.

Angels have supernatural power as a 'natural' part of their design. When satan rebelled, he and those who joined them in rebellion, still possessed supernatural abilities. When these are used in a way that is NOT AUTHORIZED BY GOD, to deceive, then we have OCCULT power demonstrated. It's source is "hidden".

This unauthorized power is called "magic" and it was among the occult practices that were forbidden to God's people. (Deut 18:9-12) It prevented them from falling for satan's tricks when he mimicked some of the supernatural feats that God's servants were able to perform. It also protected them from deceptive spirits who impersonated the dead, perpetuating the first lie that the devil told in Eden...."you surely will not die".

Opposers can argue all they wish....but they cannot charge God with using satan's power, when it is very obviously the other way around, regardless of how it was performed.

Satan is the mimic....the counterfeit wannabe god who has "the whole world" in his power. (1 John 5:18-29) Whether we fall for the deception, is up to us. (2 Cor 2:11)

 

[Sleeppy]

Satan is both internal and external. It's important not to cast it as an exclusive condition. It's one condition that applies itself to, and through, all creation. Jesus placed it within a stricter context for the sake of His teaching. His teaching reveals a person's nature, by dividing it. And by dividing it, He exposes the source of the dualism perspective.

Inadequacy and adaptability.

This is also the source of written and oral laws, and agreements. These things seek to sift out potential behaviours and manipulate or prevent them. By defining, and confining Satan, Jesus defined and confined His disciples to an observable Law. He takes Satan out of the assembly of God's sons, by verbally and expressively outcasting him.

You can do the same, and tailor it to yourself by writing down the things against your will. When these things happen, take notice. Then recognize opportunities to prevent, remove or adapt.

 

[Me Myself]

Sounds ironic yet in the stories, Jesus did engage in numberology, psychic prophecy, and performed feats of raising the dead and such. It does hint of occult type practices and or influences. Wonder what thoughts, if any, are on it?

Depends on how you define occult.

Jesus indeed raised the dead, said everyone was god, could forsee future, casted out demons, had angels and visions exalt him, etc.

He is as new agee as it gets really.

 

[Ingledsva]

I never provided anything malicious. And every one of your posts to me says either 'wrong', 'try again', or 'lol', with a condescending tone. Be at ease, and remain in peace with me.

You've expressed an obvious belief in outdated and stigmatized language, which results from, and in superstition. I can infer this, because you call things with very natural methods and outcomes, within an outdated culture of specific names (divination, magic, occult, etc.).

All of these words exist as results of ignorance, and for the ignorant, to categorize seemingly unexplainable events. This is where Talmud 'sorcery' fits in.

And had I traveled back in time with only my cellphone, thousands of years, to when these words were understandably in common use- they would have tried to stone me, as well.

That is absolutely ridiculous. And it is you trying to sneak out the back door.

We were discussing what a TEXT ACTUALLY SAYS.

Now that you have been shown to be wrong - you are trying to turn it into a different conversation.

THIS is the most ridiculous thing you have said --

"You've expressed an obvious belief in outdated and stigmatized language, which results from, and in superstition."

A belief in outdated language? What? When you translate you write what the text says - not what you want to say.

What are you suggesting? That we substitute "superstition" into a translation every time the language translates to some form of magic? More then half of the Bible would be filled with the word "superstition!"

It does not matter if it was superstition, or if they didn't actually exist, etc, - because that is not what we were discussing.

We were discussing translations of Hebrew texts dealing with MAGIC.


*

 

[Sleeppy]

That is absolutely ridiculous. And it is you trying to sneak out the back door.

We were discussing what a TEXT ACTUALLY SAYS.

Now that you have been shown to be wrong - you are trying to turn it into a different conversation.

THIS is the most ridiculous thing you have said --

"You've expressed an obvious belief in outdated and stigmatized language, which results from, and in superstition."

A belief in outdated language? What? When you translate you write what the text says - not what you want to say.

What are you suggesting? That we substitute "superstition" into a translation every time the language translates to some form of magic? More then half of the Bible would be filled with the word "superstition!"

It does not matter if it was superstition, or if they didn't actually exist, etc, - because that is not what we were discussing.

We were discussing translations of Hebrew texts dealing with MAGIC.


*

You're a little too uptight to comprehend anything I've said.

We were discussing Jesus, and the Talmud.. Then, we shifted over to both Jacob and Joseph.

The Talmud mentions 'sorcery.' No definition. No record of events. 'Sorcery' is a speculation from ignorance.

The text in both Jacob and Joseph's record were shown to be referring to natural events through the language of a culture's persisting superstitious beliefs and ignorance.

My intent was never to say that the societies these texts come from didn't believe in, and use language referring to magic or the occult. I've actually said the exact opposite. And, I could've easily pointed you towards Moses' Exodus feats, which undoubtedly would've been referred to in these terms, as well. However, it's important to realize our modern, scientific nature of observation, which we now know is more accurate and efficient than the methods used to records these texts.

You seem like you're so infatuated with this superstitious language and culture, to the point that you actually believe it to be an accurate representation of reality. If you are, that's fine. I've said everything within complete honesty. Take it or leave it.

 

[Twig pentagram]

Or a wielder of the power of God.

Ummm,,,,,,,,,,yea that could be the answer to a whole different question.

 

[arcanum]

It's possible that you could qualify some of what was written about Jesus in the gospels as occult, it's not like Magic and occultism was unknown or unpracticed in post exile Judaism. They practiced excorcism and used talismans, I think some of the inter-testament and apocryphal books mention some of this activity.

 

[Ingledsva]

That is absolutely ridiculous. And it is you trying to sneak out the back door.

We were discussing what a TEXT ACTUALLY SAYS.

Now that you have been shown to be wrong - you are trying to turn it into a different conversation.

THIS is the most ridiculous thing you have said --

"You've expressed an obvious belief in outdated and stigmatized language, which results from, and in superstition."

A belief in outdated language? What? When you translate you write what the text says - not what you want to say.

What are you suggesting? That we substitute "superstition" into a translation every time the language translates to some form of magic? More then half of the Bible would be filled with the word "superstition!"

It does not matter if it was superstition, or if they didn't actually exist, etc, - because that is not what we were discussing.

We were discussing translations of Hebrew texts dealing with MAGIC.

You're a little too uptight to comprehend anything I've said.

We were discussing Jesus, and the Talmud.. Then, we shifted over to both Jacob and Joseph.

5. The Talmud mentions 'sorcery.' No definition. No record of events. 'Sorcery' is a speculation from ignorance.

1. The text in both Jacob and Joseph's record were shown to be referring to natural events through the language of a culture's persisting superstitious beliefs and ignorance.

My intent was never to say that the societies these texts come from didn't believe in, and use language referring to magic or the occult. I've actually said the exact opposite. 2. And, I could've easily pointed you towards Moses' Exodus feats, which undoubtedly would've been referred to in these terms, as well. However, it's important to realize our modern, scientific nature of observation, 3. which we now know is more accurate and efficient than the methods used to records these texts.

4. You seem like you're so infatuated with this superstitious language and culture, to the point that you actually believe it to be an accurate representation of reality. If you are, that's fine. I've said everything within complete honesty. Take it or leave it.

LOL! Pure BULL! You challenged what I said on page two, # 14. Here it is to remind you ...

Your middle two statements are inaccurate.

The first and last statements are obviously the results of perception, not necessarily reality. Do you know of any verified methods in sorcery? The writers of the Talmud likely had no idea what they were even referring to.

I defended what I said - and you lost.

1. The Jacob and Joseph passages OBVIOUSLY were not referring to NATURAL events!
No Biblical scholar would ever record them as such!

2. I purposely chose Jacob and Joseph so there could be no "this is God at work." In Both of these texts they use magic implements to perform magic, - scrying bowl, and magic wands/staffs, just as the Pagans, - proving these books are saying they are performing magic in these specific texts.

3. As already pointed out - we are not talking about modern anything - we are talking about a translation - which PROVES they practiced magic.

That magic doesn't have to work, the people in the stories don't have to be real. It is just an ancient text which tells us they DID practice magic/sorcery.

4. I'm not infatuated with anything. A correct translation - is a correct translation - period!

I find it interesting that you choose to find fault with all those Christian translators, whom translated it just as I did.

5. The whole area at that time, practiced magic/sorcery, obviously they knew what these were under their own language. As stated above - magic/sorcery doesn't have to work - for them to practice it anyway - in the hopes that it will.

*

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's possible that you could qualify some of what was written about Jesus in the gospels as occult, it's not like Magic and occultism was unknown or unpracticed in post exile Judaism. They practiced excorcism and used talismans, I think some of the inter-testament and apocryphal books mention some of this activity.

I heard of kabbalah by which Jesus is said that he possibly may have been engaged with. If im correct, it's a form of Judaism that uses occult practices. It might explain the ritualistic methodology described in the Bible that Jesus used.

 

[Yoshua]

Sounds ironic yet in the stories, Jesus did engage in numberology, psychic prophecy, and performed feats of raising the dead and such. It does hint of occult type practices and or influences. Wonder what thoughts, if any, are on it?

I don't think so. Jesus hates occult practices.

 

[JoStories]

I don't think so. Jesus hates occult practices.

Really? You know this...how?

 

[Yoshua]

Really? You know this...how?

Hello Jo,

As written in the Scripture, the following verses stated that God prohibited divination, witchcraft, mediums, spiritist etc…

Deut. 18:10-13
10. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11. or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
12. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you.
13. "You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

Lev. 19:31
31. `Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.

Acts 16:16-18
16. And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortunetelling.
17. Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation."
18. And she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

His disciple Paul commanded the spirit to come out in the name of Jesus.

Mark 1:34
34. And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.
Luke 4:35
35. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet and come out of him!" And when the demon had thrown him down in their midst, he came out of him without doing him any harm.

Jesus also cast out demons and have authority to shut them out. We cast them out on how the disciples cast them out in the name of Jesus.

Thanks

 

[JoStories]

Hello Jo,

As written in the Scripture, the following verses stated that God prohibited divination, witchcraft, mediums, spiritist etc…

Deut. 18:10-13
10. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11. or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
12. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you.
13. "You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

Lev. 19:31
31. `Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.

Acts 16:16-18
16. And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortunetelling.
17. Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation."
18. And she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

His disciple Paul commanded the spirit to come out in the name of Jesus.

Mark 1:34
34. And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.
Luke 4:35
35. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet and come out of him!" And when the demon had thrown him down in their midst, he came out of him without doing him any harm.

Jesus also cast out demons and have authority to shut them out. We cast them out on how the disciples cast them out in the name of Jesus.

Thanks

1. Jesus was not a part of the Tanakh. So using the verses from the OT, as you call it, makes no sense. After all, as so many Christians are so quick to point out, Jesus came to fulfill the law and therefore, the OT does not pertain to him.
2. None of the verses of the NT are germane, and that includes the writings of Paul. Paul never knew Christ and had his own agenda when it came to what he taught. He was a misogynist and hated women for one, so the example of this girl fits right into this hatred of women. They speak of the casting out of demons, not the practice of the occult. Just as one example, you are aware that the idea of a trinical concept is from the occult, non? Not to mention borrowed straight from Egyptology.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

What is the trinity of ancient Egypt?

 

[jeager106]

Merriam-Webster definition of occult: The word occult has its roots in the Latin occultus, meaning “hidden, secret.”
If one Googles "occult" there are many, many, definitions more detailed than the above.
Posts 783 & 74 nailed it.
Jesus would not have practiced magic, or anything of the sort.
Jesus was on a mission made clear in the N.T.

 

[jeager106]

Merriam-Webster definition of occult: The word occult has its roots in the Latin occultus, meaning “hidden, secret.”
If one Googles "occult" there are many, many, definitions more detailed than the above.
Posts 73 & 74 nailed it from Scripture
Jesus would not have practiced magic, or anything of the sort.
Jesus was on a mission made clear in the N.T.

 

[jeager106]

What is the trinity of ancient Egypt?

Here ya go.
Highly speculated that this is where the beginning of the Christian Trinity came from.

Triads of Egyptian Gods ***

Long but good & interesting article but small print. Go fer it & if ya likes post thoughts if
it fits this thread please.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

Go fer it & if ya likes post thoughts if
it fits this thread please.

Now thats weird.

 

[jeager106]

Now thats weird.

What's weird? The post or the link?