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Did Jesus say he was God???

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
here are a few examples... apparently your memory fails you :rolleyes:
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I don't think so.
You didn't even link to the posts where he gave wrong meanings of Greek words to try to support his view in that discussion. What did he give in reply to that?
He had to change the subject and jump to another chapter.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
Yet, these are some posts taken from a single discussion out of many.
Why don't you quote his post when he copied some words from a book that he didn't understand and couldn't explain when he was asked to?
And how about quoting some arguments that were totally ignored and not replied to?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Dirty Penguin said:
I think you both are in agreement that the biblical Yeshua did not say he was "God"....

Weather Yeshua existed or if "God" exist does not apply to this thread.

Here are the assumptions for this thread....

Yeshua existed
The gospels serve as a sort of historical account of his sayings.
God exist as well as all of his creations

Basically you put yourself, to a degree, in the mindset of a theist. Debate from this position with a critical analysis of the scriptures.
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Scripture is my exact point. this debate is worthless without examination of the scripture and authors who make any claims at all of yeshua being a deity. Even if in a round about way that takes imagination to seek a deity in the words.

We have nothing more then imagination and a handful of want to go on.

Fact is we dont know what yeshua might have ever said.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
outhouse said:
Scripture is my exact point. this debate is worthless without examination of the scripture and authors who make any claims at all of yeshua being a deity. Even if in a round about way that takes imagination to seek a deity in the words.

We have nothing more then imagination and a handful of want to go on.

Fact is we dont know what yeshua might have ever said.
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indeed.
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
internationalist said:
If Jesus didn't claim to be God, why did the Jews consider him a blasphemer?
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In the Gospel called "John," it's because they misinterpreted a claim he made that's actually about mysticism to be a claim that he was God - ironically, the same misinterpretation Mark2020 and friends are making in this thread. In the Synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke) it was because he claimed to be the "Son of God."
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
doppelgänger;2655722 said:
In the Gospel called "John," it's because they misinterpreted a claim he made that's actually about mysticism to be a claim that he was God - ironically, the same misinterpretation Mark2020 and friends are making in this thread. In the Synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke) it was because he claimed to be the "Son of God."
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the way the yeshua charactor is said to have talked mythically and in parables, who knows the context and how others percieved it.
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
outhouse said:
the way the yeshua charactor is said to have talked mythically and in parables, who knows the context and how others percieved it.
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Agreed. If it were really that important he could have said "I am God" and eliminated the confusion. But as this thread demonstrates, nobody can find a place where any of these authors has him saying anything even close to that clear.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
doppelgänger;2655858 said:
Agreed. If it were really that important he could have said "I am God" and eliminated the confusion. But as this thread demonstrates, nobody can find a place where any of these authors has him saying anything even close to that clear.
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I would love to go back in time to really find out the context of how everyone looked at self proclaimed deities such as men of power and find out how they really defined the mythical nature of written words regarding what they didnt or did know.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
doppelgänger;2655722 said:
In the Gospel called "John," it's because they misinterpreted a claim he made that's actually about mysticism to be a claim that he was God - ironically, the same misinterpretation Mark2020 and friends are making in this thread. In the Synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke) it was because he claimed to be the "Son of God."
Click to expand...

And who gave you the authority to determine the correct interpretation?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Mark2020 said:
Is declaring that He is Son of God a blasphemy?
Never read the OT?
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Blasphemy comes in many forms, applying not just to G-d but to sacred and holy things in general. Thus, if one went around declaring himself to be Moshiach or that G-d was his Father, when they weren't (or in this case, in the perception that they weren't), that would easily be seen as Blasphemy. Declaring G-d to be your father, as was his official charge, was most assuredly a blasphemy in the eyes of those who didn't believe his claims. Declaring yourself to be a Prophet falsely was blasphemous too. But in this case, merely claiming attributes of Deity is blasphemy too (when falsely.)

Bible Definitions of Blasphemy

There is a common misconception regarding the meaning of blasphemy. Typically, people think of blasphemy as speaking against God or claiming the rights of God himself. While this may be true under certain circumstances, there is more to it than that. The common understanding is based on the dictionary definition, which is:​
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God, b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable​
The definition above is taken from the Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 2000 Computer Edition.​
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. While it is true that blasphemy is claiming the attributes of deity, the Bible uses a definition that restricts this usage. If one defines blasphemy to be claiming the attributes of deity in a broad sense, then most anything that God can do where another person claims to be able to do likewise then falls under that definition. However, study of the Bible will reveal that it does not support such a broad use of the word blasphemy.
What suggested to the author that there is something wrong with the common understanding of blasphemy is the simple fact that the beasts of Daniel 7 and 8 do not show blasphemy upon the body or heads of any of those beasts. The only exception is the talking horn on the fourth beast of Daniel 7 It is explained that some of its behavior was blasphemous which is equivalent to showing it upon the horn. Blasphemy is shown upon the Revelation 13 sea beast and the scarlet beast of Revelation 17. This led the author to ask this simple question:​
Why do some beasts have blasphemy upon them and some do not? ​
If claiming the attributes of deity is the definition of blasphemy, then the first, third, and fourth beasts of Daniel 7 should have blasphemy upon them (because behaviors of the leaders of those empires certainly fits this type of definition). The dragon of Revelation 12 should also have blasphemy upon it (or be very distinctly shown in its behavior) so that it is clear what it means. Yet, oddly enough, with the exception of the sea beast of Revelation 13 and the scarlet beast of Revelation 17, blasphemy is not shown upon any other beasts in spite of behavior of some of them which, based on the dictionary definition, clearly is blasphemous.​
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In this sense, declaring that you've lived longer than Abraham and are some kind of ancient-living supernatural being incarnated on Earth can easily be seen as a cause for blasphemy charges.
 
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