Did Jesus say he was God???

[Mark2020]

Nice. So you have no idea what the context is?

lol. That's you.

Funny because I (NEVER) said it did. What I said was.....
"Yeshua had already established in chapter 8 he has a god"

You failed to prove it.

John 20:17 (in part)
...."my Father, and your Father; and to my god, and your god."

I know this and explained it to you before in this thread.
The point is you claimed it was in chapter 8, and that's why I asked the question.

Yep, that's why I posted....

No, it's not "Ego eimi"
I already read that quote and replied to it. You just copy it again instead of discussing my reply. That's useless.
And your argument for genesthai is totally wrong.

Irrelevant. I can find others to the contrary but I think these will still suffice.

If your argument is that you can find some translations for "I was", there are much more translations for "I am".
But again that's irrelevant.

 

[Mark2020]

If you want to get into a serious discussion about this, discuss these:

Here are some, but I have many others:

Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament:
[FONT=&quot]Before Abraham was[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ([/FONT]πρινἈβρααμγενεσθαι[FONT=&quot] [prin Abraam genesthai]). Usual idiom with [/FONT]πριν[FONT=&quot] [prin] in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of [/FONT]γινομαι[FONT=&quot] [ginomai]) and the accusative of general reference, “before coming as to Abraham,” “before Abraham came into existence or was born.” I am ([/FONT]ἐγωεἰμι[FONT=&quot] [egō eimi]). Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God. The contrast between [/FONT]γενεσθαι[FONT=&quot] [genesthai] (entrance into existence of Abraham) and [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT=&quot] [eimi] (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between [/FONT]ἐν[FONT=&quot] [en] in 1:1 and [/FONT]ἐγενετο[FONT=&quot] [egeneto] in 1:14. See the contrast also in Psa. 90:2 between God ([/FONT]εἰ[FONT=&quot] [ei], art) and the mountains ([/FONT]γενηθηναι[FONT=&quot] [genēthēnai]). See the same use of [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT=&quot] [eimi] in John 6:20; 9:9; 8:24, 28; 18:6.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Bernard, A critical and exegetical commentary on the Gospel according to St. John :
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί[FONT=&quot], i.e. “before Abraham came into being, I AM.” The contrast between the verbs [/FONT]γίγνεσθαι[FONT=&quot] and [/FONT]εἶναι[FONT=&quot] is as unmistakable as it is in Ps. 90:2, [/FONT]πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι[FONT=&quot] … [/FONT]ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ[FONT=&quot], “before the mountains came into being … from age to age THOU ART.” Of God it could not be said that He “came into being” or “became,” for He IS. Cf. 1:18 and Col. 1:17 for this absolute use of [/FONT]εἶναι[FONT=&quot]; see also on 1:1. It has been pointed out already that [/FONT]ἐγὼ εἰμί[FONT=&quot] used absolutely, where no predicate is expressed or implied, is the equivalent of the solemn [/FONT][FONT=&quot]אֲנִי־הוּא[/FONT][FONT=&quot], I (am) He, which is the self-designation of Yahweh in the prophets. A similar use of the phrase is found at 13:19. It is clear that Jn. means to represent Jesus as thus claiming for Himself the timeless being of Deity, as distinct from the temporal existence of man. This is the teaching of the Prologue to the Gospel about Jesus (1:1, 18); but here (and at 13:19) Jesus Himself is reported as having said I (am) He, which is a definite assertion of His Godhead, and was so understood by the Jews. They had listened to His argument up to this point; but they could bear with it no longer. These words of mystery were rank blasphemy (see 10:33), and they proceeded to stone Him.[/FONT]

 

[Dirty Penguin]

lol. That's you.

The point is you claimed it was in chapter 8, and that's why I asked the question.

Yep, and I showed you just where it was. Your ignoring the simple fact that the father of Yeshua is the god of Yeshua. This is echoed throughout the NT....and some of the references of from the mouth of Yeshua himself....

 

[Mark2020]

Yep, and I showed you just where it was. Your ignoring the simple fact that the father of Yeshua is the god of Yeshua. This is echoed throughout the NT....and some of the references of from the mouth of Yeshua himself....

So you're changing the subject now!

I explained it to you before in this thread.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So you're changing the subject now!

I explained it to you before in this thread.

Nope. Just pointed out a fact that he on more than one occasion said he had a god who was his father and the one that "sent" him.....as he says in chapter 8 and 20.

 

[Mark2020]

Nope. Just pointed out a fact that he on more than one occasion said he had a god who was his father and the one that "sent" him.....as he says in chapter 8 and 20.

... which I had explained to you before and we can discuss it again after we finish this.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament:
[FONT=&quot]Before Abraham was[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ([/FONT]πρινἈβρααμγενεσθαι[FONT=&quot] [prin Abraam genesthai]). Usual idiom with [/FONT]πριν[FONT=&quot] [prin] in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of [/FONT]γινομαι[FONT=&quot] [ginomai]) and the accusative of general reference, “before coming as to Abraham,” “before Abraham came into existence or was born.” I am ([/FONT]ἐγωεἰμι[FONT=&quot] [egō eimi]).[/FONT]

I agree.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God.[/FONT]

I don't doubt that Yeshua is establishing an existence before Abraham considering his prayer to his god at

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify me with yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

But I don't think that at 8:58 Yeshua is using the I am at Exodus 3:14. The Greek there appears to be (ego eimi ho on) which basically translates to (I am The Being) which Yeshua never said.

[FONT=&quot] The contrast between [/FONT]γενεσθαι[FONT=&quot] [genesthai] (entrance into existence of Abraham) and [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT=&quot] [eimi] (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between [/FONT]ἐν[FONT=&quot] [en] in 1:1 and [/FONT]ἐγενετο[FONT=&quot] [egeneto] in 1:14. See the contrast also in Psa. 90:2 between God ([/FONT]εἰ[FONT=&quot] [ei], art) and the mountains ([/FONT]γενηθηναι[FONT=&quot] [genēthēnai]). See the same use of [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT=&quot] [eimi] in John 6:20; 9:9; 8:24, 28; 18:6.[/FONT]

This is cute. Yes, Yeshua said (ego eimi) at 8:24 but not one person picked up stones to kill him there. The context of the chapter has nothing to do with Ex. 3:14. John 18:6 possesses the (ego eimi) but so what? The context has absolutely nothing at all with Yeshua claiming a "divine" name/title. Yeshua wasn't the only one to use I am. At John 9:9 someone else used (ego eimi) but surly this man wasn't claiming to be "God" simply because he said (I am). Yeshua was expressed he exist before Abraham was.

Pe****a
ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܝܫܘܥ܂ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐ̱ܢܐ ܠܟܼܘܢ܃ ܕܿܥܕܼܠܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܒܼܪܗܡ ܐܢܐ ܐܝܬܼܝ܂
Yeshua said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham existed, I was.

 

[Mark2020]

I don't doubt that Yeshua is establishing an existence before Abraham considering his prayer to his god at

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify me with yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

But I don't think that at 8:58 Yeshua is using the I am at Exodus 3:14. The Greek there appears to be (ego eimi ho on) which basically translates to (I am The Being) which Yeshua never said.

So you had to make up an argument that isn't even mentioned and tried to answer it.
Did you even notice that "ho on" is the present participle of the same verb "eimi" used absolutely too?

Read this again:
[FONT=&quot]"Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God.[/FONT]"

Where exactly did you reply to the absolute use of "Ego eimi" or "I AM"?

This is cute...[then he changed the subject]

Do you have any argument other than its being cute?

Yeshua wasn't the only one to use I am. At John 9:9 someone else used (ego eimi) but surly this man wasn't claiming to be "God" simply because he said (I am).

That's poor.
This isn't an absolute use of "Ego eimi".

Pe****a
ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܝܫܘܥ܂ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐ̱ܢܐ ܠܟܼܘܢ܃ ܕܿܥܕܼܠܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܒܼܪܗܡ ܐܢܐ ܐܝܬܼܝ܂

Try to find an "ܐܢܐ ܐܝܬܼܝ" translated "I was" not "I am" in the Pe****ta.

 

[Mark2020]

Can you see this:

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Bernard, A critical and exegetical commentary on the Gospel according to St. John :
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί[FONT=&quot], i.e. “before Abraham came into being, I AM.” The contrast between the verbs [/FONT]γίγνεσθαι[FONT=&quot] and [/FONT]εἶναι[FONT=&quot] is as unmistakable as it is in Ps. 90:2, [/FONT]πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι[FONT=&quot] … [/FONT]ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ[FONT=&quot], “before the mountains came into being … from age to age THOU ART.” Of God it could not be said that He “came into being” or “became,” for He IS. Cf. 1:18 and Col. 1:17 for this absolute use of [/FONT]εἶναι[FONT=&quot]; see also on 1:1. It has been pointed out already that [/FONT]ἐγὼ εἰμί[FONT=&quot] used absolutely, where no predicate is expressed or implied, is the equivalent of the solemn [/FONT][FONT=&quot]אֲנִי־הוּא[/FONT][FONT=&quot], I (am) He, which is the self-designation of Yahweh in the prophets. A similar use of the phrase is found at 13:19. It is clear that Jn. means to represent Jesus as thus claiming for Himself the timeless being of Deity, as distinct from the temporal existence of man. This is the teaching of the Prologue to the Gospel about Jesus (1:1, 18); but here (and at 13:19) Jesus Himself is reported as having said I (am) He, which is a definite assertion of His Godhead, and was so understood by the Jews. They had listened to His argument up to this point; but they could bear with it no longer. These words of mystery were rank blasphemy (see 10:33), and they proceeded to stone Him.[/FONT]

 

[Shermana]

Besides the fact that the so-called "I am" is a NAME and not a statement, there's also the issue of what exactly is the name, and Aquila and Theodotion's Septuagints render it as "I shall be".

 

[Mark2020]

Besides the fact that the so-called "I am" is a NAME and not a statement, there's also the issue of what exactly is the name, and Aquila and Theodotion's Septuagints render it as "I shall be".

The funny thing is that you always post replies without reading what you are replying to.

 

[Shermana]

And then we have Asahel saying "Ego Eimi" in 2 Samuel:

Septuagint 2 Samuel 22:19 And Asahel pursued Abner, and as he went, he turned neither to the right hand nor to the left from following Abner. 20 Then Abner looked behind him and said, “Is that you, Asahel?” And he answered, "I am" (ego eimi) i.e. “It is I.

Now try to defend against that one.

 

[Mark2020]

And then we have Asahel saying "Ego Eimi" in 2 Samuel:
Now try to defend against that one.

That's poor.
This is not "Ego eimi" in the absolute sense.

 

[Shermana]

Define "Absolute sense" and explain why Asahel's statement isn't but Jesus's is.

 

[Mark2020]

Define "Absolute sense" and explain why Asahel's statement isn't but Jesus's is.

If you even tried to read the quotes you'll see what it means.
For asahel, the predicate is implied.

 

[Shermana]

And I asked you how it was implied in the other post, and you refused to answer.

 

[Mark2020]

And I asked you how it was implied in the other post, and you refused to answer.

I did.
Even your English is poor.

 

[Shermana]

No you didn't, you basically tried to say that it implies a "he" there, but it doesn't. You're implying what it implies, but it doesn't imply it. It simply says "Ego Eimi", and you're trying to say something that doesn't exist. There's no "he" implied. You can't just say what's implied without proving it.

 

[Mark2020]

No you didn't, you basically tried to say that it implies a "he" there, but it doesn't. You're implying what it implies, but it doesn't imply it. It simply says "Ego Eimi", and you're trying to say something that doesn't exist. There's no "he" implied. You can't just say what's implied without proving it.

The predicate implied is "Asahel"
Doesn't really take a university professor to figure it out.

 

[Shermana]

You don't know what "implied" means? If it says "he answered" then it's blatant, not implied. Why don't you explain how its used in the "Absolute sense" in 8:58 using a non-trinitarian scholar to back your claim.