That's poor again.
I already said the predicate "Asahel" is implied or understood from the context. It doesn't refer to eternal existence.
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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
I already said the predicate "Asahel" is implied or understood from the context. It doesn't refer to eternal existence.
Shermana
Heretic
It says "He answered", that's not implied, that's blatant. And the issue isn't really about "Eternal Existence" as much as it is about past-tense existence, and not future existence, which is implied with Theodotion's and Aquila's Septuagint rendition of the Name being "I shall be". So I see that's a refusal to explain what you mean by "Absolute sense" and a refusal to get a non-Trinitarian scholar who agrees.
Do you have problems in understanding English too?
When I say there is or there isn't an implied predicate in the sentence, what has this got to do with the fact that someone answered or not?
As poor as the rest of your arguments.
(John 8:58 [NA26]) εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
(John 8:58 [KJV]) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Not that it means anything really
Now to sum up:
First you claimed genesthai was a present verb that is translated in past (which is obviously wrong, since it is infinite), to try to justify translating "ego eimi" as "I was"
Next, you said it is "I am"
Your contradicting arguments have already defeated you.
First you claimed genesthai was a present verb that is translated in past (which is obviously wrong, since it is infinite), to try to justify translating "ego eimi" as "I was"
Next, you said it is "I am"
Your contradicting arguments have already defeated you.
Shermana
Heretic
Seriously? I'm using your OWN DEFINITION of "I am" to prove you wrong. I already believe that "I am" in the sense of 8:58 means "I have been", that's nothing to do with the point of proving to you that "Ego Eimi" doesn't mean "I am" in the same sense that you are trying to make it say. Not only that, but you're dodging the subject of why a statement is the same as a given name. It appears you are unable to provide a non-Trinitarian scholar to back your claim.
And I really don't see the difference between "Jesus said" and "he answered".
And I really don't see the difference between "Jesus said" and "he answered".
And I guess claiming an infinitive to be present is using my definition too.
I'll leave this to you. I've already given my references.
But obviously what your left with is attacking the authors of references now.
haha
After you're proven wrong you're trying to throw useless words.
Wasn't it your argument that "answered" means there is no implications in the sentence? (which is ridiculous to say the least).
I guess your next argument will be:
"said" means there are no implications!
Such poor arguments only show how poor your case is.
Shermana
Heretic
Right, that explains why Genesthai is used 20x for "will be" or "comes to be" or "will become" in the future present tense.
Trinitarian references that seem to outright ignore what the other side is saying and don't bother to address their arguments? What I'm left with is attacking their actual lack of basis for their claims, as well as their dodging of critical facts.
The irony here is so much there are magnets flying to the screen. Would you care to actually explain why "he answered" is so different than "Jesus said" or do you want to use more useless words that don't actually address anything?
That's just your poor Greek.
If you check the whole sentence where it's used, you'll see why it is thus translated.
It is still infinitive.
Keep attacking references.
Actually it's funny coming from someone who can't tell an infinitive from a present verb.
Well done!
My previous answer is clear enough.
You're just throwing useless words.
Hard to admit defeat yet again I guess.
Shermana
Heretic
You really have to resort to cutting out my responses don't you. Why don't you actually address what I said in its fullness. I said WHY the references were wrong, and this might be why you snipped my answer. I also can guess why you've refused more than twice to get a non-Trinitarian scholar who agrees with your position.
And no, your previous answer is not clear whatsoever, what it IS clear about is that you completely avoided the very concept itself. Your answer was basically "I am" means "Eternal", even though Jesus was referring to past tense only, just as how Genesthai was used as past tense. Do you know the difference with "Aorist Active infinitive"? Do you know what "Aorist active' Means?
Also, unless you're willing to get into why Genesthai is used in past tense in 8:58 as an "infinitive", feel free to spout the same baseless thing while avoiding the Aorist Active component. "I am" clearly means past tense by the indication of the Aorist Active tense.
And no, your previous answer is not clear whatsoever, what it IS clear about is that you completely avoided the very concept itself. Your answer was basically "I am" means "Eternal", even though Jesus was referring to past tense only, just as how Genesthai was used as past tense. Do you know the difference with "Aorist Active infinitive"? Do you know what "Aorist active' Means?
Also, unless you're willing to get into why Genesthai is used in past tense in 8:58 as an "infinitive", feel free to spout the same baseless thing while avoiding the Aorist Active component. "I am" clearly means past tense by the indication of the Aorist Active tense.
You are ultimate proof. Have a good night.
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I said there is no predicate implied, which means "Ego eimi" is used absolutely.
You gave your silly argument of "answered", which is irrelevant, yet I replied to it.
Get its morphology.
I suspect you already got it, since it isn't hard to find, but you just don't dare admit it since it proves you wrong.
γενέσθαι genesthai 1096V-2ADN (Aorist middle infinitve) came to be
Sorry, you're the one giving the poorest arguments which tells your position. Yet again, what's new?
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Try to have the decency of not editing posts that I already replied to.
Shermana
Heretic
I quoted it before that.
But you've done it many times already.
Shermana
Heretic
Take it up with the clock, I wasn't notified of your response until a minute after I was done.
But that's not your first time to do this.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Pe****ta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament
I apologize for not being able to paste the rendering but RF doesn't allow this image format to be pasted.
At Pe****ta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament (Interlinear NT, Yukhanan Ch. 8)
I was referring to other occurrences of "ܐܢܐ ܐܝܬܼܝ" in the Pe****ta. It is used in locations like [FONT="]John 7:34 and [/FONT][FONT="]Revelation 1:17 where it can only be present.
I have another interlinear that renders it I AM.
For An Answer: John 8:58 in the Pe****ta - "I was" or "I am?"
[/FONT]
Ethridge and Bausher rendered it "I AM":
(John 8:58 [Etheridge]) Jeshu saith to them, Amen, amen, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
58Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”