God created through the word? Being a tool of god doesn't make him The Creator.
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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
This is like creating through His Wisdom or His Word.
But wasn't referring to that. I said in the NT.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
No. He never did.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Neither. Chapter 8, in context, is not about Yeshua claiming to be "God". That's not even the reason they sought to kill him. To the Jews he was showing disrespect when he claimed to exist before Abraham. They asked him the question....'How could you have seen Abraham, you're not even fifty yet'....The context of why they wanted to kill him starts way before chapter 8 and none of it was because he declared himself to be "God".
Additionally John 8:28 helps to clarify he did claim to be "God"
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]So Yeshua said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man then you will realize that I am [he] and that I do nothing on my own, but I speak what the Father taught me.[/FONT]
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You know you could have been taken seriously if you continued our discussion about this verse, instead of running away and giving such useless words.
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I referred to the NT. Doesn't narrow it very much.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
The fact that you found them "useless" means very little. They weren't meant for you as they were directed to (waitasec). I'm sure he doesn't find them "useless" as I was simply responding to his question.
Jesus created in the miracles of feeding the multitude and the miracle of giving sight to the man born blind.
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I'm sure he doesn't. But you gave no proof for your words. You only ignored my posts about it and gave some baseless words.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
And we'll continue to pit non-trinitarian scholars against trinitarian scholars...but to what end...?
It's not about pitting scholars against scholars , at least not to me.
So you have no replies to what I gave you last time?
In order to go with a translation that is against the vast majority of translations and scholars' opinions, you should have more than that. Otherwise, this shows a biased view.
You are yet to show a reply to this:
which as I said is as important as the absolute use of eimi which expresses timeless being.
You are yet to show a reply to this:
which as I said is as important as the absolute use of eimi which expresses timeless being.
The same contrast is very clear here:
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι καὶ πλασθῆναι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν οἰκουμένην καὶ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ
Note how "eimi" is used absolutely here too: σὺ εἶ (You are God)
It's actually similar to:
John 8:58
"before Abraham was born, I am!"
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
σὺ εἶ: you are (You are God)
ἐγὼ εἰμί: I am
The same verb ειμι, Present active indicative.
So by comparison, not only does it mean "I am", it means "I am God"
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι καὶ πλασθῆναι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν οἰκουμένην καὶ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ
Note how "eimi" is used absolutely here too: σὺ εἶ (You are God)
It's actually similar to:
John 8:58
"before Abraham was born, I am!"
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
σὺ εἶ: you are (You are God)
ἐγὼ εἰμί: I am
The same verb ειμι, Present active indicative.
So by comparison, not only does it mean "I am", it means "I am God"
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Shermana
Heretic
There's an "El" in Psalm 90:2 in the Hebrew.
Regardless, to say that Jesus said "I am G-d" makes no sense gramatically in the reference to Abraham having been.
Now which version of the Septuagint are you using exactly?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/sep/psa090.htm#002
2 ἐρεῖ τῷ κυρίῳ ἀντιλήμπτωρ μου εἶ καὶ καταφυγή μου ὁ θεός μου ἐλπιῶ ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν
Hmmm, apparently the particular translation you are using is different than this one, could it be....that the one you are using is possibly...in error?
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/isbe/ID/8699/Text-Of-Old-Testament.htm
It appears that the known old Septuagint versions aren't exactly error-free, so why is their translation of 90:2 so trustworthy?
Regardless, to say that Jesus said "I am G-d" makes no sense gramatically in the reference to Abraham having been.
Now which version of the Septuagint are you using exactly?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/sep/psa090.htm#002
2 ἐρεῖ τῷ κυρίῳ ἀντιλήμπτωρ μου εἶ καὶ καταφυγή μου ὁ θεός μου ἐλπιῶ ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν
Hmmm, apparently the particular translation you are using is different than this one, could it be....that the one you are using is possibly...in error?
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/isbe/ID/8699/Text-Of-Old-Testament.htm
It appears that the known old Septuagint versions aren't exactly error-free, so why is their translation of 90:2 so trustworthy?
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Shermana
Heretic
Young's Literal Translation
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works;
John 10:14
Quite clearly, Yashua is saying that it's not himself who is doing the works or saying his teachings but acting as the means. The Spirit of the Father may fully dwell in the Holy Human Temple that is the Christ, but the Temple is not the source of its own power.
Could it be ... that you can't read Greek?
You have no idea that the numbering in the LXX is different?
You're off by 1 chapter, and you couldn't even see the difference in Greek! (check the meaning in English, that's embarrassing)
Try this:
Septuagint: Psalms: Psalms Chapter 89
More poor arguments...
Shermana
Heretic
Okay, I'll admit error on that one, I forgot the numbering is off by one. I saw the O Theos and clicked in a hurry.
Regardless, Jesus saying "I am G-d" makes no sense gramatically in comparison to Abraham having been. And you've failed to address the Aorist Active tense several times, writing it off as "useless words".
Regardless, Jesus saying "I am G-d" makes no sense gramatically in comparison to Abraham having been. And you've failed to address the Aorist Active tense several times, writing it off as "useless words".
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Your new edits gets the same reply:
You can't read Greek.
Useless.
You can't even put a proper verse reference.